Why Harvard Is Being Sued Over This 169-Year-Old Slave Photo
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Date: 2019-11-01
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Comments and reviews: 9
I
This is definitely a tough one. I don't think that woman should get rights to the photos. It's to difficult to prove her lineage. BUT I definitely don't think Harvard should own these photos and be able to profit off of them anymore, it's like they are still profiting off some type of slavery. They should be of public domain and given to a museum that would be able to showcase them. Then as was said in the video, the past profits of the photo from Harvard should be given to the appropriate Charity's. As for referendum and compensation for descendents of slaves, because of the book-keeping that was done, which was crappy and was done to not benefit the slaves, it would be very difficult to prove your lineage to a person or persons, who were slaves. Though ironically enough my grandmother had always talked about how she had enslaved ancestors. I think for there to be proper referendum, it would have to be BEYOND just money at this point. How can the govt. start sending out checks to people claiming to be descendents? I personally think there would have to be something very different, like maybe all the universities that profited off of slavery making donations, that are almost equivalent to their profits, to African American charities. Or just pushing for more knowledge and more emphasis on how slavery STILL affects African Americans today? Beyond that, the WORLD has to change, unfortunately I truly don't believe monetary compensation would lead us to a better and brighter future. As others have said it might actually just lead to confusing and merky laws.
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This is definitely a tough one. I don't think that woman should get rights to the photos. It's to difficult to prove her lineage. BUT I definitely don't think Harvard should own these photos and be able to profit off of them anymore, it's like they are still profiting off some type of slavery. They should be of public domain and given to a museum that would be able to showcase them. Then as was said in the video, the past profits of the photo from Harvard should be given to the appropriate Charity's. As for referendum and compensation for descendents of slaves, because of the book-keeping that was done, which was crappy and was done to not benefit the slaves, it would be very difficult to prove your lineage to a person or persons, who were slaves. Though ironically enough my grandmother had always talked about how she had enslaved ancestors. I think for there to be proper referendum, it would have to be BEYOND just money at this point. How can the govt. start sending out checks to people claiming to be descendents? I personally think there would have to be something very different, like maybe all the universities that profited off of slavery making donations, that are almost equivalent to their profits, to African American charities. Or just pushing for more knowledge and more emphasis on how slavery STILL affects African Americans today? Beyond that, the WORLD has to change, unfortunately I truly don't believe monetary compensation would lead us to a better and brighter future. As others have said it might actually just lead to confusing and merky laws.
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KemkoKaoKameo
I understand y she is upset to see her ancestors image used to make profit for an institution that oppressed them. But as the law states, the photo is owned by the photographer n not the subject even if the subject is unaware that they r in a photo. If the photos were continuing to be used for their original purpose of dehumanizing black people, then she'd have a case for deformation of character. But as it stands she has nothing to really stand on. Take this example; photographers constantly take pictures inside the city n they don't have to pay every person present in the photo in order to obtain the rights. Since they took it, they own it. This is y paparazzi exist. If this woman wins her case it means that everyone n anyone who has their photo taken would own it unless the photographer pays them. This means even the police n security companies would no longer be able to film people as the film would help protect their financial interests n ergo make them money. So in order to use the evidence in court u would have to get the defendant to allow u to use the photo/video.
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I understand y she is upset to see her ancestors image used to make profit for an institution that oppressed them. But as the law states, the photo is owned by the photographer n not the subject even if the subject is unaware that they r in a photo. If the photos were continuing to be used for their original purpose of dehumanizing black people, then she'd have a case for deformation of character. But as it stands she has nothing to really stand on. Take this example; photographers constantly take pictures inside the city n they don't have to pay every person present in the photo in order to obtain the rights. Since they took it, they own it. This is y paparazzi exist. If this woman wins her case it means that everyone n anyone who has their photo taken would own it unless the photographer pays them. This means even the police n security companies would no longer be able to film people as the film would help protect their financial interests n ergo make them money. So in order to use the evidence in court u would have to get the defendant to allow u to use the photo/video.
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charlotte72701
Honestly if it actually is her ancestors why not just give the physical copy of the photos to her. It's really not that complicated. Keep a copy of them in a museum and keep it pushing. Honestly Columbia should take the money that they already have and use it to pay the students instead of making the students themselves paying it. Honestly I understand the idea of reparations but because white Americans did a really good job at erasing enslaves blacks's personhood it's hard to to do thata any kind of ancestry pre dating the civil war. So instead of paying us for reparations why don't they take the same money and use it to improve our communities, access to healthcare and education. For example use that money to help fund HBCUs or programs geared toward helping black people close the achievement gap and giving us level footing. Because it would be near impossible to determine the ancestors of slaves. Because reparations shouldn't apply to African immigrants or their decendants
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Honestly if it actually is her ancestors why not just give the physical copy of the photos to her. It's really not that complicated. Keep a copy of them in a museum and keep it pushing. Honestly Columbia should take the money that they already have and use it to pay the students instead of making the students themselves paying it. Honestly I understand the idea of reparations but because white Americans did a really good job at erasing enslaves blacks's personhood it's hard to to do thata any kind of ancestry pre dating the civil war. So instead of paying us for reparations why don't they take the same money and use it to improve our communities, access to healthcare and education. For example use that money to help fund HBCUs or programs geared toward helping black people close the achievement gap and giving us level footing. Because it would be near impossible to determine the ancestors of slaves. Because reparations shouldn't apply to African immigrants or their decendants
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Kriffing_schutta
reparations and equality are mutually exclusive. they cannot coexist. because you are not your ancestors. you and your ancestors are, factually, different people. the people receiving the reparations have never, in their whole lives, ever been a slave and the people paying the reparations have never, in their whole lives, ever owned a slave. on top of that, most white people aren't even descended from people who owned slaves. i mean, Irish immigration, alone didn't really kick off until after emancipation not to mention most people come from poor families that wouldn't have even been able to afford slaves. so, by implementing reparation policies, what you've done is create a situation where people are paying for the crimes of people totally unrelated to them because they have the same skin color. and eventually those people are gonna start to demand reparations for the reparations creating a never ending cycle of which race is on top now?
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reparations and equality are mutually exclusive. they cannot coexist. because you are not your ancestors. you and your ancestors are, factually, different people. the people receiving the reparations have never, in their whole lives, ever been a slave and the people paying the reparations have never, in their whole lives, ever owned a slave. on top of that, most white people aren't even descended from people who owned slaves. i mean, Irish immigration, alone didn't really kick off until after emancipation not to mention most people come from poor families that wouldn't have even been able to afford slaves. so, by implementing reparation policies, what you've done is create a situation where people are paying for the crimes of people totally unrelated to them because they have the same skin color. and eventually those people are gonna start to demand reparations for the reparations creating a never ending cycle of which race is on top now?
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Merry Machiavelli
The weird thing about reparations is that (if you accept the premise of it) one of the groups that owe reparations should really be the descendants of the West and Central African monarchs and socio-elites that did most of the original capturing and selling. Who is going to charge over to southern Nigeria and demand that Nigerian prince that is always scamming you for money pay reparations? Also, on a practical note, I imagine many, many more Americans have some slave ancestry than some of the people that support these bills imagine. That's kinda that way ancestry works, go back six generations, you have 64 4x Great-grandparents, go have 8 generations, you have 256. Chances are, the only groups that wouldn't be even slightly eligible would be migrants and their recent descendants - and redistributing wealth from Latinos, ethnically Irish, Italian. etc. people to everyone else is a bit nuts.
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The weird thing about reparations is that (if you accept the premise of it) one of the groups that owe reparations should really be the descendants of the West and Central African monarchs and socio-elites that did most of the original capturing and selling. Who is going to charge over to southern Nigeria and demand that Nigerian prince that is always scamming you for money pay reparations? Also, on a practical note, I imagine many, many more Americans have some slave ancestry than some of the people that support these bills imagine. That's kinda that way ancestry works, go back six generations, you have 64 4x Great-grandparents, go have 8 generations, you have 256. Chances are, the only groups that wouldn't be even slightly eligible would be migrants and their recent descendants - and redistributing wealth from Latinos, ethnically Irish, Italian. etc. people to everyone else is a bit nuts.
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Deborsha Guyot
I am glad you are shining a light on something a lot of people think A. D. O. S shouldn't get but are very wrong on the subject just looking at the top comments they don't know what they are talking about and since they won't benefit they don't see why A. D. O. S should. Because the shit didn't stop back in olden times it still goes on to this day also all the action has affected the black community as a whole, not just the A. D. O. S. Native American has gotten something for what happened to them, Japanese are getting something as well the Jewish community even though we had nothing to do with the Holocaust. So why not the people this country use to get rich and left poor? A. D. O. S get nothing for what happened to their family? And do me if you think I'm saying this because I would benefit because I have no clue if I have a past slave/slaves in my bloodline.
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I am glad you are shining a light on something a lot of people think A. D. O. S shouldn't get but are very wrong on the subject just looking at the top comments they don't know what they are talking about and since they won't benefit they don't see why A. D. O. S should. Because the shit didn't stop back in olden times it still goes on to this day also all the action has affected the black community as a whole, not just the A. D. O. S. Native American has gotten something for what happened to them, Japanese are getting something as well the Jewish community even though we had nothing to do with the Holocaust. So why not the people this country use to get rich and left poor? A. D. O. S get nothing for what happened to their family? And do me if you think I'm saying this because I would benefit because I have no clue if I have a past slave/slaves in my bloodline.
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Minchi
In my opinion, people underestimate how impactful the lack of any form of generational wealth or security and racism has impacted the slave brought black community to this day. I dont think tossing money at a community is a solution but there wouldn't be such a disparity without this history, and I definitely think assistance in the form of inclusive gentrification and school reform could heavily change these areas, which would benefit society as a whole and let us get away from this race situation. With this case I wouldn't necessarily give credence to it, but it seems like a unique situation of an American establishment essentially profiteering off its racial history at no profit to those its wronged. if these individuals had been able to give their consent and profit off of it/had the choice originally this woman would never be even questioning this.
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In my opinion, people underestimate how impactful the lack of any form of generational wealth or security and racism has impacted the slave brought black community to this day. I dont think tossing money at a community is a solution but there wouldn't be such a disparity without this history, and I definitely think assistance in the form of inclusive gentrification and school reform could heavily change these areas, which would benefit society as a whole and let us get away from this race situation. With this case I wouldn't necessarily give credence to it, but it seems like a unique situation of an American establishment essentially profiteering off its racial history at no profit to those its wronged. if these individuals had been able to give their consent and profit off of it/had the choice originally this woman would never be even questioning this.
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TheRatMan
As soon as I heard the reparations thing get brought I immediately saw what this was. Reparations is nonsense plain and simple. None of us had anything to do with things 100+ years ago and skin color doesn't do anything to change that. Just outright since none of us had direct involvement in slavery means none of us deserve to give/take reparations. Especially when it can't even be proven if the individuals had any past connection to it in the first place. Beyond that it also opens up a floodgate of arguments. For instance I've got Irish ancestry, does that mean I deserve reparations from England for royally screwing the Irish people during the potato famine? Or do I deserve it from America for treating the Irish terribly during the mass migration(Irish Need Not Apply? No, not at all. Because I was never there, I never experienced any of that.
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As soon as I heard the reparations thing get brought I immediately saw what this was. Reparations is nonsense plain and simple. None of us had anything to do with things 100+ years ago and skin color doesn't do anything to change that. Just outright since none of us had direct involvement in slavery means none of us deserve to give/take reparations. Especially when it can't even be proven if the individuals had any past connection to it in the first place. Beyond that it also opens up a floodgate of arguments. For instance I've got Irish ancestry, does that mean I deserve reparations from England for royally screwing the Irish people during the potato famine? Or do I deserve it from America for treating the Irish terribly during the mass migration(Irish Need Not Apply? No, not at all. Because I was never there, I never experienced any of that.
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Diego Velázquez
Let me give you a bit of my background, I am Mexican who is 3rd Generation Tijuana Citizen (which is rare. Us citizen we are proud of our past however dark or prosperous it was. The past of our City has made it what it is today. Having said that, no one is entitled for such a possession nor should be compensated, it would be also me trying to sue my government for a picture of my great grandfather who was one of the Defenders of Tijuana; I am more than happy getting a copy of the picture and let people look at the history and learn from it. I it heartbreaking to see such polarized views for something that both sides feels entitled to; we must not bury our past because we feel it is wrong. History must not be erased from our books, museums, etc. we must share it so we do not repeat it.
reply
Let me give you a bit of my background, I am Mexican who is 3rd Generation Tijuana Citizen (which is rare. Us citizen we are proud of our past however dark or prosperous it was. The past of our City has made it what it is today. Having said that, no one is entitled for such a possession nor should be compensated, it would be also me trying to sue my government for a picture of my great grandfather who was one of the Defenders of Tijuana; I am more than happy getting a copy of the picture and let people look at the history and learn from it. I it heartbreaking to see such polarized views for something that both sides feels entitled to; we must not bury our past because we feel it is wrong. History must not be erased from our books, museums, etc. we must share it so we do not repeat it.
reply
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