New and Improved Sourdough Bread - Food Wishes
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Date: 2024-04-10
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Comments and reviews: 20
MrOffTrail
Good stuff, but as a molecular biologist, something is bothering me here: lyse is pronounced like lice or lies, take your pick, not like lease. Also, autolyze (autolyse in British spelling) is a verb, not a noun, and means to cause autolysis. Autolysis means self rupture or self cut literally, but really means the digestion or breaking up of cells or tissue by an organism’s own enzymes. This has been borrowed into baking to describe the process of allowing protease enzymes present in the flour to break down some of the proteins as the dough hydrates. So autolyze/autolyse in this specific context means to break down some of its proteins with its own enzymes. To refer to the resulting mixture, you could say autolyzed dough or (autolysed dough. And the process, or step in the recipe, would be autolysis (aw-to-LIE-sis. E. g. The next step is autolysis. We will allow the dough to autolyze for 2 hours.
Some googling resulted in several examples of the improper usage and pronunciation in baking circles, and I get it, this was somewhat obscure terminology to the general public in the past, and if you just read it, you’d have to guess at how to say it, but perhaps we can nip this in the bud before the wrong usage and pronunciation gets further disseminated.
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Good stuff, but as a molecular biologist, something is bothering me here: lyse is pronounced like lice or lies, take your pick, not like lease. Also, autolyze (autolyse in British spelling) is a verb, not a noun, and means to cause autolysis. Autolysis means self rupture or self cut literally, but really means the digestion or breaking up of cells or tissue by an organism’s own enzymes. This has been borrowed into baking to describe the process of allowing protease enzymes present in the flour to break down some of the proteins as the dough hydrates. So autolyze/autolyse in this specific context means to break down some of its proteins with its own enzymes. To refer to the resulting mixture, you could say autolyzed dough or (autolysed dough. And the process, or step in the recipe, would be autolysis (aw-to-LIE-sis. E. g. The next step is autolysis. We will allow the dough to autolyze for 2 hours.
Some googling resulted in several examples of the improper usage and pronunciation in baking circles, and I get it, this was somewhat obscure terminology to the general public in the past, and if you just read it, you’d have to guess at how to say it, but perhaps we can nip this in the bud before the wrong usage and pronunciation gets further disseminated.
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foodwishes
This is very similar to my current routine! I do a different turn and fold, and fewer of them, and I double the batch and bake two, or sometimes quadruple, since I have a college age son, and a lot of other family who have grown to expect fresh bread. I sure wish I could afford a challenger! If anyone asks me for some of my starter I’ll send them here to know what to do with it. Would you do a sourdough rye, or a 50-75% whole wheat seed bread sometime I’ve been struggling to get a whole grainier betard form that has the good high hydration crumb, but stands tall and proud. I think I might just have to invest in some ceramic loaf pans that come with a cloche. I just want some more sandwich or toaster friendly slices, you know I nailed it about a year ago, and I’ve been chasing that ideal ever since.
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This is very similar to my current routine! I do a different turn and fold, and fewer of them, and I double the batch and bake two, or sometimes quadruple, since I have a college age son, and a lot of other family who have grown to expect fresh bread. I sure wish I could afford a challenger! If anyone asks me for some of my starter I’ll send them here to know what to do with it. Would you do a sourdough rye, or a 50-75% whole wheat seed bread sometime I’ve been struggling to get a whole grainier betard form that has the good high hydration crumb, but stands tall and proud. I think I might just have to invest in some ceramic loaf pans that come with a cloche. I just want some more sandwich or toaster friendly slices, you know I nailed it about a year ago, and I’ve been chasing that ideal ever since.
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AdmiralPeach
This is an amazing & thorough method to get excellent results. However if you are new to sourdough, please don’t get overwhelmed by all the steps! There are many things you can cut out & still get an excellent loaf I add starter straight from the fridge to the dough, let it rest for 30 mins, do just one set of flop & turns’ then cover & bulk ferment overnight. Next morning I do one more set of flop & turns, shape & put the dough onto baking paper in a large bowl & cover. Let it rise for a few more hours until almost doubled & jiggly, score & bake in a preheated cast iron pot! Much easier but still excellent crumb structure: )
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This is an amazing & thorough method to get excellent results. However if you are new to sourdough, please don’t get overwhelmed by all the steps! There are many things you can cut out & still get an excellent loaf I add starter straight from the fridge to the dough, let it rest for 30 mins, do just one set of flop & turns’ then cover & bulk ferment overnight. Next morning I do one more set of flop & turns, shape & put the dough onto baking paper in a large bowl & cover. Let it rise for a few more hours until almost doubled & jiggly, score & bake in a preheated cast iron pot! Much easier but still excellent crumb structure: )
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tomasgulas
I've been making sourdough for few years now. I used to do all these steps, but now, I'm over it, don't have the time or patience, so I do it all in stand up mixer, don't do any folding with exception of maybe one, and the bread turns out AMAZING. Tje whole family loves it.
I'm not selling it the bread, or taking pictures for others to see it, I just eat it. So if u r considering making sourdough, it can be much easier and effortless. I will however try baking it according to Chef John's directions to wee how it comes out of oven. Thank you!
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I've been making sourdough for few years now. I used to do all these steps, but now, I'm over it, don't have the time or patience, so I do it all in stand up mixer, don't do any folding with exception of maybe one, and the bread turns out AMAZING. Tje whole family loves it.
I'm not selling it the bread, or taking pictures for others to see it, I just eat it. So if u r considering making sourdough, it can be much easier and effortless. I will however try baking it according to Chef John's directions to wee how it comes out of oven. Thank you!
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rko1095
OK I have been making sourdough bread for years and I will tell you that you do not need a scale to work with your starter. I have never used a scale. I do use bread flour, whole-wheat flour and rye flour for my starter as well but I just use the ratio of 3: 1: 1 (bread flour: whole-wheat: rye flour. I only use bread flour for the dough. I just measure 1 1/2 cups of water and then add up to 5 cups of bread flour, the starter with two teaspoons of salt and one tablespoon of sugar. The rest of the process is similar to Chef John.
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OK I have been making sourdough bread for years and I will tell you that you do not need a scale to work with your starter. I have never used a scale. I do use bread flour, whole-wheat flour and rye flour for my starter as well but I just use the ratio of 3: 1: 1 (bread flour: whole-wheat: rye flour. I only use bread flour for the dough. I just measure 1 1/2 cups of water and then add up to 5 cups of bread flour, the starter with two teaspoons of salt and one tablespoon of sugar. The rest of the process is similar to Chef John.
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deutschlander85
I would really like to know what the benefit of doing all of the stretching is. I have made a lot of very high-moisture bread recipes and have dutifully gone through the whole rigmarole of turning and lifting and stretching. A lot of Peter Reinhart's recipes call for that process. But, I have to admit that one day, I couldn't be bothered, and I just gave it some extra time in my stand mixer. I couldn't tell the difference. Am I missing something I would genuinely love some feedback from more experienced breadbakers.
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I would really like to know what the benefit of doing all of the stretching is. I have made a lot of very high-moisture bread recipes and have dutifully gone through the whole rigmarole of turning and lifting and stretching. A lot of Peter Reinhart's recipes call for that process. But, I have to admit that one day, I couldn't be bothered, and I just gave it some extra time in my stand mixer. I couldn't tell the difference. Am I missing something I would genuinely love some feedback from more experienced breadbakers.
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coolcanoechic
Hi Chef John! Finally! . I like your steps. The tri-folds are nice. I learned from King Arthur baking school, a different method. I’m definitely going to try this method. It has more folds and I also like the wheat flour because it adds more flavor. The ice cube trick is a keeper. If I learn anything from this, add ice cubes! Your video tutorial is perfect. Nice job. Yes. It always takes two days. It’s worth it. We love you too!
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Hi Chef John! Finally! . I like your steps. The tri-folds are nice. I learned from King Arthur baking school, a different method. I’m definitely going to try this method. It has more folds and I also like the wheat flour because it adds more flavor. The ice cube trick is a keeper. If I learn anything from this, add ice cubes! Your video tutorial is perfect. Nice job. Yes. It always takes two days. It’s worth it. We love you too!
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ChiTownJerry
I napped through half this video, Chef John.
Thank you! But. This is just too much work. I will stick to Jim Lahey's no knead recipe for overnight crusty loaves.
And, the dough I buy at my Italian grocery labeled Pizza Dough has a wonderful tang if allowed to sit in my fridge for a few days. Makes wonderful focaccia!
So. I will not be jumping on board this gourmet sourdough train.
But, once again. thanks for all these videos!
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I napped through half this video, Chef John.
Thank you! But. This is just too much work. I will stick to Jim Lahey's no knead recipe for overnight crusty loaves.
And, the dough I buy at my Italian grocery labeled Pizza Dough has a wonderful tang if allowed to sit in my fridge for a few days. Makes wonderful focaccia!
So. I will not be jumping on board this gourmet sourdough train.
But, once again. thanks for all these videos!
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Emslander
Chef John, I’ve been bragging on your recipes and processes to everyone and now you’ve very much disillusioned me. I’ve been doing sourdough for 16 years. This goes so much against your normally irreverent take on obsessive compulsive food creation. It’s an over the top violation of the philosophy of the ancient art of natural bread. I’m sorry that you felt compelled to do this video. I think you know what I mean.
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Chef John, I’ve been bragging on your recipes and processes to everyone and now you’ve very much disillusioned me. I’ve been doing sourdough for 16 years. This goes so much against your normally irreverent take on obsessive compulsive food creation. It’s an over the top violation of the philosophy of the ancient art of natural bread. I’m sorry that you felt compelled to do this video. I think you know what I mean.
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skyhigh6
I've been baking sourdough bread for year, and your video is great, but these many steps is why most people give up on making sourdough bread. My technique is much simpler and I get great results. I've given away pounds of starter, only to have the newbies give up on making sourdough bread because they watch a video. I offered to give lessons but in today's rushed society no one is willing to spend the time.
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I've been baking sourdough bread for year, and your video is great, but these many steps is why most people give up on making sourdough bread. My technique is much simpler and I get great results. I've given away pounds of starter, only to have the newbies give up on making sourdough bread because they watch a video. I offered to give lessons but in today's rushed society no one is willing to spend the time.
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mattymattffs
One of the things that this is missing information wise is what kind of protein percentage the flower has and what the brand of flour is. All of that really affects how much hydration you can actually add to the loaf. For beginners is definitely better to start at like 60 or 65% than anything higher than that and learn what the dough should feel and look like
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One of the things that this is missing information wise is what kind of protein percentage the flower has and what the brand of flour is. All of that really affects how much hydration you can actually add to the loaf. For beginners is definitely better to start at like 60 or 65% than anything higher than that and learn what the dough should feel and look like
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znavot0
this recipe is sooo involved!
just mix all the ingredients 20 grams of sugar.
stick it in the fridge for 48-72 hours.
shape the dough a bit, let it rest for a night and to the oven.
that is a recipe you can make every week and not once in your life.
btw, I make it 100% wheat, 1/3 whole and it turns out great.
no fancy flours.
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this recipe is sooo involved!
just mix all the ingredients 20 grams of sugar.
stick it in the fridge for 48-72 hours.
shape the dough a bit, let it rest for a night and to the oven.
that is a recipe you can make every week and not once in your life.
btw, I make it 100% wheat, 1/3 whole and it turns out great.
no fancy flours.
reply
StevenD215
For anyone who ends up with a crust that's too crunchy and thick for their liking, I recently stumbled upon a suggestion to bake it longer covered, so I went from 25 minutes to 30 and it's been a game changer for me. Can probably go even longer than that. I should point out I bake covered at 450 not 500. No more super cut up roof of my mouth.
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For anyone who ends up with a crust that's too crunchy and thick for their liking, I recently stumbled upon a suggestion to bake it longer covered, so I went from 25 minutes to 30 and it's been a game changer for me. Can probably go even longer than that. I should point out I bake covered at 450 not 500. No more super cut up roof of my mouth.
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ZippytheHappyChimp
Ain't no one got time to mess with their dough 17 times over a 20 hour period; no matter how much better the bread result is. I guess if you LOVE baking you can waste a weekend doing this nonsense, but for everyday bread, just do a cold ferment or a food processor kneed'ing. Your bread will still be 90% as good as Chef Johns.
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Ain't no one got time to mess with their dough 17 times over a 20 hour period; no matter how much better the bread result is. I guess if you LOVE baking you can waste a weekend doing this nonsense, but for everyday bread, just do a cold ferment or a food processor kneed'ing. Your bread will still be 90% as good as Chef Johns.
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jonny9884
Love and appreciate you, too! Thanks for taking the time and effort to share all this, and look forward to getting into baking sour dough bread. I miss it, had a lot of it from San Francisco growing up, but can't really find it where I live presently. Anyway, hope to make this myself at some point!
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Love and appreciate you, too! Thanks for taking the time and effort to share all this, and look forward to getting into baking sour dough bread. I miss it, had a lot of it from San Francisco growing up, but can't really find it where I live presently. Anyway, hope to make this myself at some point!
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DailyJAB
that looks so good. i've been making sourdough since christmas and just getting the sourdough starter going was a lot of fun. i don't have a cast iron bread pan so i use an old fashion roaster with some ice lol works great. now i want to check if you have any recipes using your sour dough discards
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that looks so good. i've been making sourdough since christmas and just getting the sourdough starter going was a lot of fun. i don't have a cast iron bread pan so i use an old fashion roaster with some ice lol works great. now i want to check if you have any recipes using your sour dough discards
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ryburt8052
FOOD WISH: Is there a type of dough I can make and freeze so I can create one or two Hamburger buns, Hotdog buns, or other bread, bagels, English muffin, or anything that doesn't have long to rise after I take it out of the freezer so I don't have to buy or make a whole bunch at once
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FOOD WISH: Is there a type of dough I can make and freeze so I can create one or two Hamburger buns, Hotdog buns, or other bread, bagels, English muffin, or anything that doesn't have long to rise after I take it out of the freezer so I don't have to buy or make a whole bunch at once
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schafer6811
It's funny how autolyse is universally pronounced auto-LEEZE in the baking world, even though the term comes from biology, where the original terms are lyse (pronounced like lice in English) and the related lysis (LIE-sis. I wonder if maybe a French baker came up with the term.
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It's funny how autolyse is universally pronounced auto-LEEZE in the baking world, even though the term comes from biology, where the original terms are lyse (pronounced like lice in English) and the related lysis (LIE-sis. I wonder if maybe a French baker came up with the term.
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hans_____
Baking sourdough is one of my favorite hobbies. I convert most recipes with wheat to sourdough. Lately I've been making sourdough pasta which is incredibly easy now that I have an attachment to my kitchenaid mixer. I have to stop myself from making it everyday lol.
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Baking sourdough is one of my favorite hobbies. I convert most recipes with wheat to sourdough. Lately I've been making sourdough pasta which is incredibly easy now that I have an attachment to my kitchenaid mixer. I have to stop myself from making it everyday lol.
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catylynch7909
CJ, we love you. However, I heard the words exactly, and grams, far too often for my comfort zone. I couldn't even handle making sourdough, when we first went into pandemic lockdown. Fortunately, I live only a few blocks from Boudin Bakery, on Geary St.
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CJ, we love you. However, I heard the words exactly, and grams, far too often for my comfort zone. I couldn't even handle making sourdough, when we first went into pandemic lockdown. Fortunately, I live only a few blocks from Boudin Bakery, on Geary St.
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