Round 2: Is AMD (Radeon) Actually Screwed ft. Steve of Hardware Unboxed
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Date: 2025-05-31
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Comments and reviews: 20
james2042
If AMD sold the 10000 series or whatever comes next at a loss for the entire generation just to reclaim marketshare, it's such a small portion of their business the financial hit would be non existent and they can report it to investors as reinventing their gaming brand to really bolster public opinion. Like straight up silicon their gpu a tier up on every single one. like if the 9070 xt was 450 they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough and it would simply get people buying radeon gpus. It would put radeon deep in the red and they could over the life of the generation do away with msrp cards once the sales slowed down, but steam charts would have an amd gpu near the top for the first time probably ever. It would force developers to respond to people having amd gpus and we would see less of a monopolistic approach to game development. They deal with this for a year and next generation they close the gap, where they don't sell at a loss, but the margins are near 0%. Once again slowly ween off the base models as demand slows and minimize losses. Two generations of gpus with healthy marketshare would be enough to actually build a foundation for being a brand worth buying instead of being poor mans nvidia.
Yes, I'm aware the business unit would never allow this. Yes, I'm aware they only care about this quarter, and next quarter is buisness unit 3 months from now's problem. This is the downside of a publicly traded company, they can't take an investment risk like this because of how long the ROI would be on such a drastic play. They managed to do similar with intel and look at intel now, they can't hold a candle to anything amd makes cpu wise. But amd was on the brink of bankruptcy and investors were throwing pennies at the company just to see if anything would come of it.
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If AMD sold the 10000 series or whatever comes next at a loss for the entire generation just to reclaim marketshare, it's such a small portion of their business the financial hit would be non existent and they can report it to investors as reinventing their gaming brand to really bolster public opinion. Like straight up silicon their gpu a tier up on every single one. like if the 9070 xt was 450 they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough and it would simply get people buying radeon gpus. It would put radeon deep in the red and they could over the life of the generation do away with msrp cards once the sales slowed down, but steam charts would have an amd gpu near the top for the first time probably ever. It would force developers to respond to people having amd gpus and we would see less of a monopolistic approach to game development. They deal with this for a year and next generation they close the gap, where they don't sell at a loss, but the margins are near 0%. Once again slowly ween off the base models as demand slows and minimize losses. Two generations of gpus with healthy marketshare would be enough to actually build a foundation for being a brand worth buying instead of being poor mans nvidia.
Yes, I'm aware the business unit would never allow this. Yes, I'm aware they only care about this quarter, and next quarter is buisness unit 3 months from now's problem. This is the downside of a publicly traded company, they can't take an investment risk like this because of how long the ROI would be on such a drastic play. They managed to do similar with intel and look at intel now, they can't hold a candle to anything amd makes cpu wise. But amd was on the brink of bankruptcy and investors were throwing pennies at the company just to see if anything would come of it.
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FHGaming1-f6c
They really need to disrupt the low end of the market. In my unsolicited opinion, AMD is in the BEST position to make APU products that neither intel nor nvidia can match.
PC's are only 20% of the entire gaming market, small change. Consoles have weak profit margins. Where it's at are mobile consoles and devices, we're reaching the point where 5090's are nearly enough, now they need to be more efficient. And how can they possibly do that with software Linux, proton. They could have Apple's workload efficiency with PC rendering power, proper multicore utilization, NUC form factor with 5090 framerates. People are going to prefer that in their increasingly limited space over a huge pc tower in 20 years
Finally seeing jumps in cooling/efficiency that make it possible, xmems, piezo, vapour chambers, chiplets. Seeing cable bandwidth exceed the capabilities of pcs (4k 300hz with DP2.1 and DSC), and hardware bandwidth/memory density as well (L3 cache size, infinity fabric, M.2 storage, ram needs to be abolished for a better unified memory). Seeing monitors that can display anything instantly (OLED). Seeing upscaling of lower resolutions that can be eventually be made universal for all content in time. Seeing an OS that can be run more efficiently with time (proton). And seeing glimmers of more efficient algorithms with AI. Processing clocks are high enough.
These are the limiters of most 'computers': Cooling, bandwidth, algorithms, energy consumption, software (OS), processing speed. It seems like the only thing left to do is make things smaller, more efficient
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They really need to disrupt the low end of the market. In my unsolicited opinion, AMD is in the BEST position to make APU products that neither intel nor nvidia can match.
PC's are only 20% of the entire gaming market, small change. Consoles have weak profit margins. Where it's at are mobile consoles and devices, we're reaching the point where 5090's are nearly enough, now they need to be more efficient. And how can they possibly do that with software Linux, proton. They could have Apple's workload efficiency with PC rendering power, proper multicore utilization, NUC form factor with 5090 framerates. People are going to prefer that in their increasingly limited space over a huge pc tower in 20 years
Finally seeing jumps in cooling/efficiency that make it possible, xmems, piezo, vapour chambers, chiplets. Seeing cable bandwidth exceed the capabilities of pcs (4k 300hz with DP2.1 and DSC), and hardware bandwidth/memory density as well (L3 cache size, infinity fabric, M.2 storage, ram needs to be abolished for a better unified memory). Seeing monitors that can display anything instantly (OLED). Seeing upscaling of lower resolutions that can be eventually be made universal for all content in time. Seeing an OS that can be run more efficiently with time (proton). And seeing glimmers of more efficient algorithms with AI. Processing clocks are high enough.
These are the limiters of most 'computers': Cooling, bandwidth, algorithms, energy consumption, software (OS), processing speed. It seems like the only thing left to do is make things smaller, more efficient
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Ober1kenobi
5:25
You guys also couldn't recommend the 4060, 4060ti,
Those same cards, 4060 laptop GPU top of steam charts, 4060 in 3rd and 4060ti in 5th.
Oh and those very cards you mentioned, are less than a 5500xt and they make up 0.16% of GPUs on steam so yes, I guess they're selling VERY WELL ARENT THEY STEVE HU were never wrong we couldn't possibly be wrong put your ego away mate.
7700xt and 7800xt also only make up 0.28 and 0.26% respectively, AMD GPUs don't sell.
They're best selling GPUs are integrated solutions
More people use onboard Intel graphics than the most popular dedicated Radeon GPU
Yes they sell so well
More people are using a 4090 than AMDs best selling dedicated GPU
The 6600 is their best selling GPU according to Steam surveys (most used anyway), and that's less than 1%.
3060, 4060, 4060ti, 3070, 2060, 4070, 3050, 1060, 4070 Super, 1660 Super, 3080, 1050ti, etc.
Y'all whinge and moan and go buy Nvidia
Good game, well played, better luck next time, git gud, do you even lift bro, LOL, UW0TM8.
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5:25
You guys also couldn't recommend the 4060, 4060ti,
Those same cards, 4060 laptop GPU top of steam charts, 4060 in 3rd and 4060ti in 5th.
Oh and those very cards you mentioned, are less than a 5500xt and they make up 0.16% of GPUs on steam so yes, I guess they're selling VERY WELL ARENT THEY STEVE HU were never wrong we couldn't possibly be wrong put your ego away mate.
7700xt and 7800xt also only make up 0.28 and 0.26% respectively, AMD GPUs don't sell.
They're best selling GPUs are integrated solutions
More people use onboard Intel graphics than the most popular dedicated Radeon GPU
Yes they sell so well
More people are using a 4090 than AMDs best selling dedicated GPU
The 6600 is their best selling GPU according to Steam surveys (most used anyway), and that's less than 1%.
3060, 4060, 4060ti, 3070, 2060, 4070, 3050, 1060, 4070 Super, 1660 Super, 3080, 1050ti, etc.
Y'all whinge and moan and go buy Nvidia
Good game, well played, better luck next time, git gud, do you even lift bro, LOL, UW0TM8.
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RFC3514
People (including some reviewers) act as if AMD has the power to set prices of products made by card manufacturers and sold by retailers, the way Nvidia does. They don't. AMD represents less than 20% of discrete GPU sales. They're not in a position to force manufacturers or retailers to adopt their MSRP.
If people are willing to pay $800 for the cards, that's what retailers and manufacturers will price them at. If AMD sells the GPUs (meaning the chips) themselves cheaper, that just means bigger margins for everyone else.
BTW, please stop using GPU to mean the cards, it just confuses some people (it's like using CPU to mean a whole PC).
AMD can say we'll give you a $50 discount on the GPU itself if you sell the card at $600, but that only works if consumers aren't willing to pay more than $650. If they are, then the card manufacturers and retailers will just raise the price by more than the discount they're giving up, and still make _more_ money in the end.
If you don't like the prices, vote with your wallet and don't buy them.
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People (including some reviewers) act as if AMD has the power to set prices of products made by card manufacturers and sold by retailers, the way Nvidia does. They don't. AMD represents less than 20% of discrete GPU sales. They're not in a position to force manufacturers or retailers to adopt their MSRP.
If people are willing to pay $800 for the cards, that's what retailers and manufacturers will price them at. If AMD sells the GPUs (meaning the chips) themselves cheaper, that just means bigger margins for everyone else.
BTW, please stop using GPU to mean the cards, it just confuses some people (it's like using CPU to mean a whole PC).
AMD can say we'll give you a $50 discount on the GPU itself if you sell the card at $600, but that only works if consumers aren't willing to pay more than $650. If they are, then the card manufacturers and retailers will just raise the price by more than the discount they're giving up, and still make _more_ money in the end.
If you don't like the prices, vote with your wallet and don't buy them.
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Disposalist
The excusing of greedy corps because they exist to make money has got to stop.
Once companies get beyond being making enough profit to be able to pay their employees they are making choices. Companies worth billions can absolutely afford to behave better.
They weigh up how much they care about their reputation and how much they want to make their customers happy against how much they feel the need to have even bigger profits to feed obscene executive bonuses and boost their share prices.
It seems there is a trend for corps to do all they can to squeeze every last penny out of a product and their customers.
They appear to be able to treat consumers like drooling idiots and keep making bigger and bigger profits for lesser and lesser products.
Unfortunately it seems the modern consumer _is_ a drooling idiot.
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The excusing of greedy corps because they exist to make money has got to stop.
Once companies get beyond being making enough profit to be able to pay their employees they are making choices. Companies worth billions can absolutely afford to behave better.
They weigh up how much they care about their reputation and how much they want to make their customers happy against how much they feel the need to have even bigger profits to feed obscene executive bonuses and boost their share prices.
It seems there is a trend for corps to do all they can to squeeze every last penny out of a product and their customers.
They appear to be able to treat consumers like drooling idiots and keep making bigger and bigger profits for lesser and lesser products.
Unfortunately it seems the modern consumer _is_ a drooling idiot.
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ivanuschka
I'm sorry, but... I bought my RX 580 8GB in late 2018 (6,5 years ago) for 200.
Now the MSRP for an RX 9060 XT 16GB (not even a respective 9080 XT!) is close to 400, the RX 9070 XT was supposed to start in the higher 600's, but is effectively somewhere between 750 and 850!
The MSRP is already beyond reasonable (material prices didn't rise that much, employees' wages didn't, we haven't seen the introduction of a revolutionary new technology),
but the factual prices are actually insane. Even more so for Nvidia cards which used to be slightly more expensive than Radeons, not 50-100% more expensive!
People need to get real about the dimensions of gpu market insanity...
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I'm sorry, but... I bought my RX 580 8GB in late 2018 (6,5 years ago) for 200.
Now the MSRP for an RX 9060 XT 16GB (not even a respective 9080 XT!) is close to 400, the RX 9070 XT was supposed to start in the higher 600's, but is effectively somewhere between 750 and 850!
The MSRP is already beyond reasonable (material prices didn't rise that much, employees' wages didn't, we haven't seen the introduction of a revolutionary new technology),
but the factual prices are actually insane. Even more so for Nvidia cards which used to be slightly more expensive than Radeons, not 50-100% more expensive!
People need to get real about the dimensions of gpu market insanity...
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yeezystreetteam
AMD won a PR campaign with a very simple and tight strategy. Overall, they're not that much in a better place in terms of value given that they've exhausted their MSRP gimmick and value was really the proposition with AMD. After MSRP vanishes, you have an $800 graphics card that isn't that much better than the 7800xt or 7900xt. You're basically not getting value, you're getting the best you think you can get for the price - which is not the same, and it brings team green back into the picture. A great marketing win, but it's short lived and I have a feeling they're going to ride that good feeling as long as they can while their prices trickle up.
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AMD won a PR campaign with a very simple and tight strategy. Overall, they're not that much in a better place in terms of value given that they've exhausted their MSRP gimmick and value was really the proposition with AMD. After MSRP vanishes, you have an $800 graphics card that isn't that much better than the 7800xt or 7900xt. You're basically not getting value, you're getting the best you think you can get for the price - which is not the same, and it brings team green back into the picture. A great marketing win, but it's short lived and I have a feeling they're going to ride that good feeling as long as they can while their prices trickle up.
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andycole5957
I'd say AMD did F up. The new 9070 series doesn't have as good of a GPU than the 7900xtx, let alone one that is better. RAM is relatively cheap, at least come out with a 24GB model, but why not release a 32GB model that compares in some ways to the 5080 and 5090. Now I'm not sure what to do; I really want to avoid the Nvidia 50 series, but the 9070xt just doesn't cut it. So do you get a 7900xtx, which is twice the price of the 9070xt, but only marginally better, or do you wait to see if AMD comes out with a 9070xtx, or Nvidia comes out with a 60 series first AMD is always going to be second tier, if they only make mid tier GPU's.
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I'd say AMD did F up. The new 9070 series doesn't have as good of a GPU than the 7900xtx, let alone one that is better. RAM is relatively cheap, at least come out with a 24GB model, but why not release a 32GB model that compares in some ways to the 5080 and 5090. Now I'm not sure what to do; I really want to avoid the Nvidia 50 series, but the 9070xt just doesn't cut it. So do you get a 7900xtx, which is twice the price of the 9070xt, but only marginally better, or do you wait to see if AMD comes out with a 9070xtx, or Nvidia comes out with a 60 series first AMD is always going to be second tier, if they only make mid tier GPU's.
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CameraGuy82
How do they hold up for video editing I know Nividia is more compatible with Davinci Resolve because of Cuda, but with all the issues the 50 series has, i'm hesitant to upgrade my RTX 3070ti to the 50 series. Their drivers are causing enough issues with my 30 series already. I constantly get the BSOD in DR just doing something as simple as loading a timeline. I'm not doing any heavy video editing with stuff like Fusion, but I do a lot of color correcting and use Topaz Video AI a lot. I would rather take my chances with AMD if it can work just as well.
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How do they hold up for video editing I know Nividia is more compatible with Davinci Resolve because of Cuda, but with all the issues the 50 series has, i'm hesitant to upgrade my RTX 3070ti to the 50 series. Their drivers are causing enough issues with my 30 series already. I constantly get the BSOD in DR just doing something as simple as loading a timeline. I'm not doing any heavy video editing with stuff like Fusion, but I do a lot of color correcting and use Topaz Video AI a lot. I would rather take my chances with AMD if it can work just as well.
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depth386
The 7900 XT pricing was a basic math fail. Compared to 7900 XTX, it had 87.5% of the CUs, 83% of the memory bus & VRAM. How could it ever be 90% of the price when it launched at $900 vs. $1000 That’s what made no sense. It wasn’t just AMD either. The RTX 4080 had a similar problem relative to RTX 4090. The ratios made no sense. How the C-Suites at both of these corporations failed to use a calculator for a moment is beyond me.
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The 7900 XT pricing was a basic math fail. Compared to 7900 XTX, it had 87.5% of the CUs, 83% of the memory bus & VRAM. How could it ever be 90% of the price when it launched at $900 vs. $1000 That’s what made no sense. It wasn’t just AMD either. The RTX 4080 had a similar problem relative to RTX 4090. The ratios made no sense. How the C-Suites at both of these corporations failed to use a calculator for a moment is beyond me.
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tehpanda64
Is msrp ever going to be real If tariffs are going to prevent AMD from ever reaching msrp, I would like AMD to give an updated msrp. But right now I am under the impression that the gpus are over msrp because they are being scalped not because tariffs: and so I am waiting for the stock to be built up enough that I can pay msrp. It just feels like prices aren't really moving so maybe I am wrong to wait
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Is msrp ever going to be real If tariffs are going to prevent AMD from ever reaching msrp, I would like AMD to give an updated msrp. But right now I am under the impression that the gpus are over msrp because they are being scalped not because tariffs: and so I am waiting for the stock to be built up enough that I can pay msrp. It just feels like prices aren't really moving so maybe I am wrong to wait
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darthpaulx
GPU market is dead.
When the RTX 7000 or 8000 comes out, i'll be buying chinese gpu.
After so many years, china will also make gpu's and way cheaper. Let's say affordable like in the past.
These days Nvidia wants us pay as much as a console for a gpu.
A gpu should be an extra to pay a bit so we can play games on pc.
Times really changed due to greediness of Nvidia and also Amd now.
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GPU market is dead.
When the RTX 7000 or 8000 comes out, i'll be buying chinese gpu.
After so many years, china will also make gpu's and way cheaper. Let's say affordable like in the past.
These days Nvidia wants us pay as much as a console for a gpu.
A gpu should be an extra to pay a bit so we can play games on pc.
Times really changed due to greediness of Nvidia and also Amd now.
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kahrhoshe
I think that 700ish for a powercolor is well worth it as ive bought 2 earlier ones(6950xt and 790-0xtx) and the hellhound, redevil cards are legit one of the best on the market in my opinion. IF i had to choose another company ive had good luck with xfx as well.
and i got the 6950xt for 700ish and the 7900xtx about 900(of course after launch and the first or second price drops)
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I think that 700ish for a powercolor is well worth it as ive bought 2 earlier ones(6950xt and 790-0xtx) and the hellhound, redevil cards are legit one of the best on the market in my opinion. IF i had to choose another company ive had good luck with xfx as well.
and i got the 6950xt for 700ish and the 7900xtx about 900(of course after launch and the first or second price drops)
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shtizen4371
9070xt s are going for 800 to over 1k....for a 70 class card. I have a 6800xt. I will not spend 1k for a 70 class card when and if i upgrade.
If amd controlled their msrp they would of gained a giant chunk of market share. if i could of got one for 600 to 700 i would of got one...as it stands ill just wait till the super series come out and spend 1k on an actual upgrade!
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9070xt s are going for 800 to over 1k....for a 70 class card. I have a 6800xt. I will not spend 1k for a 70 class card when and if i upgrade.
If amd controlled their msrp they would of gained a giant chunk of market share. if i could of got one for 600 to 700 i would of got one...as it stands ill just wait till the super series come out and spend 1k on an actual upgrade!
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TheDeadStyx
Although i will be buying a 5080, i actually have high hopes for AMD. I do see the move of 9th series not going for 5080 as not a bad strategy. Gain (continue gaining) reputation on the gpu market(i honestly didn't really trust Radeon until i got a stream deck), plus polishing the technology to the moment of being confident of competing with the top Nvidia models.
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Although i will be buying a 5080, i actually have high hopes for AMD. I do see the move of 9th series not going for 5080 as not a bad strategy. Gain (continue gaining) reputation on the gpu market(i honestly didn't really trust Radeon until i got a stream deck), plus polishing the technology to the moment of being confident of competing with the top Nvidia models.
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iielysiumx5811
AMD Radeon has this incredible ability, to somehow, when nvidia is literally handing them a win, and with the disaster that is the 50 series that is basically what they have done. To somehow screw it up. Over here on the UK is wanted a 9070XT for my new build, why didn’t I get one Cause you couldn’t buy any of them at a reasonable price!
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AMD Radeon has this incredible ability, to somehow, when nvidia is literally handing them a win, and with the disaster that is the 50 series that is basically what they have done. To somehow screw it up. Over here on the UK is wanted a 9070XT for my new build, why didn’t I get one Cause you couldn’t buy any of them at a reasonable price!
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gamersnexus
I really like seeing competitor reviewers come together and have conversations, it's awesome camaraderie, keep up the good work, when researching products, we take your word and honest opinions, personally my pc tech purchased over the last few years are based on reviews from GN/J2Cents/HW Unboxed/KitGuru and Gearseekers and more.
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I really like seeing competitor reviewers come together and have conversations, it's awesome camaraderie, keep up the good work, when researching products, we take your word and honest opinions, personally my pc tech purchased over the last few years are based on reviews from GN/J2Cents/HW Unboxed/KitGuru and Gearseekers and more.
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pazu8728
AMD and other big companies paid a lot of money for 3rd party marketing reasearch to nail pricing for new product launch.
They got US consumer research free from you guys who are on the ground with customers. Your pricing feedback should be gold to them.
Don't listen to people that says that you are meddling in the pricing.
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AMD and other big companies paid a lot of money for 3rd party marketing reasearch to nail pricing for new product launch.
They got US consumer research free from you guys who are on the ground with customers. Your pricing feedback should be gold to them.
Don't listen to people that says that you are meddling in the pricing.
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Cullenprime
I want a video card that can replace my 7900 XTX and there is no card out there right now that is much of an upgrade unless I spend 3500 dollars on a 5090 and that is way too much money. I really need AMD to come out with a new XTX card that would be a worthy upgrade and it would be way cheaper than an Nvidia counterpart.
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I want a video card that can replace my 7900 XTX and there is no card out there right now that is much of an upgrade unless I spend 3500 dollars on a 5090 and that is way too much money. I really need AMD to come out with a new XTX card that would be a worthy upgrade and it would be way cheaper than an Nvidia counterpart.
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NegativeROG
I'm extremely impressed with AMD.
All of the gaming systems in my house are Ryzen/Radeon. The only Intel/Nvidia system is a 2018 game/media server.
My 6950XT is an overclocking MONSTER, and is equivalent to a 3090 Ti, but cost me less than half the price.
My future is pure RED, and I'm extremely cool with that.
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I'm extremely impressed with AMD.
All of the gaming systems in my house are Ryzen/Radeon. The only Intel/Nvidia system is a 2018 game/media server.
My 6950XT is an overclocking MONSTER, and is equivalent to a 3090 Ti, but cost me less than half the price.
My future is pure RED, and I'm extremely cool with that.
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