TRAINING VOLUME & HYPERTROPHY: How Much Do You Need? ft. Dr. Mike Israetel
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Date: 2019-11-06
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Comments and reviews: 9
funkaforfan
Hi Jeff. Thank you for another great video. As a fellow academic (my field is not in sports but the same scientific principles apply) I find your videos informative because I like Your approach to fitness. However, as can be heard at approx. 34 minutes into this discussion You sometimes tend to become biased towards proving Your points. In this example Dr. Mike argues that due to the accumulated fatigue, stopping 2 reps shy of failure will eventually be more advantageous for hypertrophy due to You being able to do more volume. You do not argue with this, but point out that for people who do not want optimal hypertrophic response/save time, going to failure will be more beneficial. I Thought Your whole argument revolved around optimal? I have heard the same kind of bias in Your arguments against Intermittent fasting people. Please corrected me if I'm wrong. I love scientific discussions with people and maybe that is why I quickly react to what I perceive as bias. Dr. Mike points this out as the getting away with - mentality.
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Hi Jeff. Thank you for another great video. As a fellow academic (my field is not in sports but the same scientific principles apply) I find your videos informative because I like Your approach to fitness. However, as can be heard at approx. 34 minutes into this discussion You sometimes tend to become biased towards proving Your points. In this example Dr. Mike argues that due to the accumulated fatigue, stopping 2 reps shy of failure will eventually be more advantageous for hypertrophy due to You being able to do more volume. You do not argue with this, but point out that for people who do not want optimal hypertrophic response/save time, going to failure will be more beneficial. I Thought Your whole argument revolved around optimal? I have heard the same kind of bias in Your arguments against Intermittent fasting people. Please corrected me if I'm wrong. I love scientific discussions with people and maybe that is why I quickly react to what I perceive as bias. Dr. Mike points this out as the getting away with - mentality.
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chris dart
Sorry Mike but a set of lateral raises doesn't induce any chronic fatigue whatsoever. I take all my accessories to failure (lat raise, strict curl, skull crusher, rear delt swing, lat pull, seated row, chest support) and can almost always add reps or weight to them after just a single day of rest that consists of squatting 7-8 and back work. I've done this for almost a year now and my fatigue has always only been correlated with full body compounds. Single joint movements cost you nothing outside of the intra-session fatigue. Edit: worth mentioning that I have completed an entire block of training where I did stay 8 with all the same movements, and my fatigue hit on the exact same day as previous blocks where I hit failure every single accessory exercise, every set, and every session with 3xweek frequency for each body part. It literally had zero effect on my chronic fatigue.
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Sorry Mike but a set of lateral raises doesn't induce any chronic fatigue whatsoever. I take all my accessories to failure (lat raise, strict curl, skull crusher, rear delt swing, lat pull, seated row, chest support) and can almost always add reps or weight to them after just a single day of rest that consists of squatting 7-8 and back work. I've done this for almost a year now and my fatigue has always only been correlated with full body compounds. Single joint movements cost you nothing outside of the intra-session fatigue. Edit: worth mentioning that I have completed an entire block of training where I did stay 8 with all the same movements, and my fatigue hit on the exact same day as previous blocks where I hit failure every single accessory exercise, every set, and every session with 3xweek frequency for each body part. It literally had zero effect on my chronic fatigue.
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jay pasin
Love you guys, and watch both of you all the time. I have a few Questions: Regarding counting sets with compound moves. how would you count something like a squat or pull up or bench press for supporting muscle groups? Say for pull-ups, would you count that as both lat and bicep? what about a variation like chin-up? What about forearms? They seem to be working indirectly nearly all the time, how many dedicated forearms sets would you recommend? Subjectively. I rarely see anyone in the gym targeting forearms (its is always an ancillary lift) and some of them are jacked. Is anybody hitting forearms 15 sets a week? Lol, my forearms are lagging. Also does progressive overload apply when cutting? If Im in a caloric deficit, and not anticipating size gains is deloading necessary?
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Love you guys, and watch both of you all the time. I have a few Questions: Regarding counting sets with compound moves. how would you count something like a squat or pull up or bench press for supporting muscle groups? Say for pull-ups, would you count that as both lat and bicep? what about a variation like chin-up? What about forearms? They seem to be working indirectly nearly all the time, how many dedicated forearms sets would you recommend? Subjectively. I rarely see anyone in the gym targeting forearms (its is always an ancillary lift) and some of them are jacked. Is anybody hitting forearms 15 sets a week? Lol, my forearms are lagging. Also does progressive overload apply when cutting? If Im in a caloric deficit, and not anticipating size gains is deloading necessary?
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Carl Jenkins
All this talk about total sets/wk per body part doesn't seem to discuss the different kinds of sets done. For example, starting with big heavy compound moves for 4-6 reps for 3-6 sets provides one type of stimulus, imagine an 8-9 RPE, versus a GVT 10x10 with the last 3 sets effectively being rest-pause just to get your 10 reps, and finishers where you might do 3 sets of 20 to get past the burn-your-muscles-down lactic acid phase at the end of the day. That's potentially 19 sets in a day but they're not all the same, so doing that 2x/wk makes the volume 38 sets, WAY above the 20-25 total weekly sets mentioned as the upper limit in this interview. Am I misguided? Over-training? Or is, as I suspect, the reality much more complex than the current conversation?
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All this talk about total sets/wk per body part doesn't seem to discuss the different kinds of sets done. For example, starting with big heavy compound moves for 4-6 reps for 3-6 sets provides one type of stimulus, imagine an 8-9 RPE, versus a GVT 10x10 with the last 3 sets effectively being rest-pause just to get your 10 reps, and finishers where you might do 3 sets of 20 to get past the burn-your-muscles-down lactic acid phase at the end of the day. That's potentially 19 sets in a day but they're not all the same, so doing that 2x/wk makes the volume 38 sets, WAY above the 20-25 total weekly sets mentioned as the upper limit in this interview. Am I misguided? Over-training? Or is, as I suspect, the reality much more complex than the current conversation?
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Stephen Evans
I have a question as to what constitutes failure. How do things like drop sets, spotted reps and changes in moment arms come into play? For example for people who have a dominant posterior chain, as they approach failure on a knee dominant squat, they often revert to a more hip dominant pattern placing less force into the quads. They cant do anymore reps in the knee dominant pattern so does that count as failure even though they may be able to get out 3-4 more reps (and a squatmorning or 2) with the hip dominant technique. Another example could be someone who has an exaggerated sticking point on the bench press. With a very small spot they may people to get out at least a few more reps. At what point is it considered going to failure.
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I have a question as to what constitutes failure. How do things like drop sets, spotted reps and changes in moment arms come into play? For example for people who have a dominant posterior chain, as they approach failure on a knee dominant squat, they often revert to a more hip dominant pattern placing less force into the quads. They cant do anymore reps in the knee dominant pattern so does that count as failure even though they may be able to get out 3-4 more reps (and a squatmorning or 2) with the hip dominant technique. Another example could be someone who has an exaggerated sticking point on the bench press. With a very small spot they may people to get out at least a few more reps. At what point is it considered going to failure.
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Roberto Ricciardella
Great video Jeff, whenever you come out with podcast always seems to be the most interesting ones, with the best phrased questions. In part 2 can you ask mike to talk about light sessions, backburner body part sessions, does he still use that weeks proximity to failure or does he just lower the RIR and just get some volume. Would he consider that as towards his sets that week even though as he says by definition the rir may have been lower(if he actually applies this? His take on overloading, semi overloading work and its application in a program? I feel many would benefit from this type of detail in a program. Also his take on light sessions vs getting caught into junk volume. Thanks Jeff
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Great video Jeff, whenever you come out with podcast always seems to be the most interesting ones, with the best phrased questions. In part 2 can you ask mike to talk about light sessions, backburner body part sessions, does he still use that weeks proximity to failure or does he just lower the RIR and just get some volume. Would he consider that as towards his sets that week even though as he says by definition the rir may have been lower(if he actually applies this? His take on overloading, semi overloading work and its application in a program? I feel many would benefit from this type of detail in a program. Also his take on light sessions vs getting caught into junk volume. Thanks Jeff
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Tim Gerber
Regarding the failure discussion, you guys touched on it, but didnt stress it enough: There is technical failure and there is muscle failure. I believe it is best to stop a set when you reach technical failure which is when you cant do the exercise with proper form anymore. This in my opinion does not only occur in newbies, but also experienced athletes. After technical failure, you can always crank out a couple more reps, but they are not of the same quality anymore. So either you have a good feeling for that yourself already or you need a coach or training partner who tells you when you hit technical failure.
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Regarding the failure discussion, you guys touched on it, but didnt stress it enough: There is technical failure and there is muscle failure. I believe it is best to stop a set when you reach technical failure which is when you cant do the exercise with proper form anymore. This in my opinion does not only occur in newbies, but also experienced athletes. After technical failure, you can always crank out a couple more reps, but they are not of the same quality anymore. So either you have a good feeling for that yourself already or you need a coach or training partner who tells you when you hit technical failure.
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Link Wolfgar
I dont know. Arnold, Lou and all the greats lift till they collapse. They must be doing sumthin right. Go for broke and make your body recover faster. Just limit atrophy with food and supplement. Check ur glucose regularly and eat before durring and after lifting. Solid food before and Liquid feed is durring exercise. And both after. Eat before bed. If ur still burning fat then have a liquid feed ready to go when u get up to piss around 2am. Prevent glycogen depletion. Reduced cortisol lol from disrupting protein synthesis. But hit it to the limit. You should be collapsing from a lift at least twice a week.
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I dont know. Arnold, Lou and all the greats lift till they collapse. They must be doing sumthin right. Go for broke and make your body recover faster. Just limit atrophy with food and supplement. Check ur glucose regularly and eat before durring and after lifting. Solid food before and Liquid feed is durring exercise. And both after. Eat before bed. If ur still burning fat then have a liquid feed ready to go when u get up to piss around 2am. Prevent glycogen depletion. Reduced cortisol lol from disrupting protein synthesis. But hit it to the limit. You should be collapsing from a lift at least twice a week.
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Mike Pepe
Jeff, I am a track and field athlete. I just graduated high school and am attending a division 1 college next year for sports. I am a shot and disc thrower. All of my lifting is power lifting. Power cleans snatches deadlift. My only goal goal is to get stronger and more explosive. Size doesnt matter for me. How long should I rest after training one muscle group. For example if I do power cleans on Monday how many days should I wait to clean again or to even snatch to get as strong and as explosive as possible with not allowing my muscles to heal. Please let me know Jeff. Thanks
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Jeff, I am a track and field athlete. I just graduated high school and am attending a division 1 college next year for sports. I am a shot and disc thrower. All of my lifting is power lifting. Power cleans snatches deadlift. My only goal goal is to get stronger and more explosive. Size doesnt matter for me. How long should I rest after training one muscle group. For example if I do power cleans on Monday how many days should I wait to clean again or to even snatch to get as strong and as explosive as possible with not allowing my muscles to heal. Please let me know Jeff. Thanks
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