HW News - Melting GPU Power Cables 12VHPWR, Intel Arc Isn't Dead, & RTX 40 Coolers
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Videogame CEOs are amongst the highest paid CEOs. The companies could absolutely absorb these costs with minimal downsides, and maybe give their CEOs a few dozen million dollars less.
Date: 2022-09-20
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Comments and reviews: 14
Xaytana
The Mars MCB seems interesting. Might be a water cooling beast depending on what actual compatibility is. The concept itself doesn't seem bad, more clean intake/exhaust, now that the typical bottom is atypically lifted from any surface. Then taking the dual chamber and internal side panel fan concept from Lian Li's 011 series and actually making a full chamber around it; I'd be curious if you can hide pumps and a distro block back there as well, have all the feature components in the front while having all the components that don't have a display quality to them in the back. It's definitely a unique case that at least has potential at surface value.
Personally, though, I'd rotate the display so that I/O is down, then have a shroud that leads from I/O through the back. This would route cabling and chamber exhaust into the rear chamber and out the back. Doing things this way could also result in a better looking and more unique case, as you're moving from a typical case strapped to an angled stand with side panel access holes, to something that could be a bit more monolithic with a more coherent sculpting.
The concept of this isn't bad, though. I'd be curious if there's any modders out there that'd recreate it with nearly any standard case on the market. Again, it's just a case strapped to a stand, modify the typically blank side panel with an enclosure, and you more or less have the same outcome. though for full effect, a case with internal side panel fans should be used, like an 011, 011 clones, etc. If enough eyes are on this, and enough third parties are messing around with it, other brands could also take notice and develop cases based on the same concept.
I would want to see a review just to see how the concept fully works out in this implementation. If raising the bottom panel has any meaningful impact on airflow dynamics, how side panel exhaust impacts airflow dynamics, full water cooling compatibility, etc. It's an interesting case, a concept of which we could just as easily see more of in the future, which is why I'd personally design it differently and why I'm curious if there's any modders out there that'd apply the concept to standard cases, if it does become a design trend you might as well have early comparative data for the layout's concept; and who knows, if GN says the implementation is bad for whatever reasons, that could influence future cases as well. Not to mention bringing this brand to a wider audience could also bring the brand into more markets if the brand sees enough foreign interest, could be a win-win for everyone if the brand is competent and has decent products.
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The Mars MCB seems interesting. Might be a water cooling beast depending on what actual compatibility is. The concept itself doesn't seem bad, more clean intake/exhaust, now that the typical bottom is atypically lifted from any surface. Then taking the dual chamber and internal side panel fan concept from Lian Li's 011 series and actually making a full chamber around it; I'd be curious if you can hide pumps and a distro block back there as well, have all the feature components in the front while having all the components that don't have a display quality to them in the back. It's definitely a unique case that at least has potential at surface value.
Personally, though, I'd rotate the display so that I/O is down, then have a shroud that leads from I/O through the back. This would route cabling and chamber exhaust into the rear chamber and out the back. Doing things this way could also result in a better looking and more unique case, as you're moving from a typical case strapped to an angled stand with side panel access holes, to something that could be a bit more monolithic with a more coherent sculpting.
The concept of this isn't bad, though. I'd be curious if there's any modders out there that'd recreate it with nearly any standard case on the market. Again, it's just a case strapped to a stand, modify the typically blank side panel with an enclosure, and you more or less have the same outcome. though for full effect, a case with internal side panel fans should be used, like an 011, 011 clones, etc. If enough eyes are on this, and enough third parties are messing around with it, other brands could also take notice and develop cases based on the same concept.
I would want to see a review just to see how the concept fully works out in this implementation. If raising the bottom panel has any meaningful impact on airflow dynamics, how side panel exhaust impacts airflow dynamics, full water cooling compatibility, etc. It's an interesting case, a concept of which we could just as easily see more of in the future, which is why I'd personally design it differently and why I'm curious if there's any modders out there that'd apply the concept to standard cases, if it does become a design trend you might as well have early comparative data for the layout's concept; and who knows, if GN says the implementation is bad for whatever reasons, that could influence future cases as well. Not to mention bringing this brand to a wider audience could also bring the brand into more markets if the brand sees enough foreign interest, could be a win-win for everyone if the brand is competent and has decent products.
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MISTER
The whole thing about cost increase for new developers for AAA games raises a LOT of questions. Sure demand is high, but if we look at general wages, are they equally higher compared to what developers for AAA games earned 5 years ago? I mean sure they may earn more on a yearly basis, but most likely they're also being overworked more so what they earn per hour of work is what I'm getting at here. Good ol' crunch hours are an industry standard too, sadly. That price increase for games, where does that increase really go towards? Something tells me only a minor fraction of it finds its way to developers.
Also a ton of AAA games recycle content and build on existing templates with much more streamlined production pipelines today so it's not necessarily a fact that games are more difficult to make. Sure the bar is higher, but that high bar is also easier to reach when you only produce formulaic games.
In reality, certain game aspects today are easier to make than ever before because game engines have become much more optimized for streamlined workflow, there is less focus on optimization because modern hardware can handle more complexity out of the box - which of course in return means games tend to be larger in scope because there is more time freed up from not having to overoptimize every little aspect of the game. It's an equation with multiple variables, and blanket statements such as games are more difficult to make today is not addressing the true complexity of videogame development in general.
What IS difficult, is making original and innovative games - that's actually what costs real money. And most AAA publishers are very afraid of taking this route and leave it to indie games that don't have to strive for that AAA polished look and need originality to stand out and be successful.
So TLDR; Making great looking/playing videogames are easier today than ever before - which in turn means scopes widen and bars are raised. Overwall it equals out, as there's also much more money to be made today where gaming in society has grown exponentially, so while games are larger, their revenue pool has also increased. So the argument that games are more expensive to make thus we raise the prices does not match real world context at all.
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The whole thing about cost increase for new developers for AAA games raises a LOT of questions. Sure demand is high, but if we look at general wages, are they equally higher compared to what developers for AAA games earned 5 years ago? I mean sure they may earn more on a yearly basis, but most likely they're also being overworked more so what they earn per hour of work is what I'm getting at here. Good ol' crunch hours are an industry standard too, sadly. That price increase for games, where does that increase really go towards? Something tells me only a minor fraction of it finds its way to developers.
Also a ton of AAA games recycle content and build on existing templates with much more streamlined production pipelines today so it's not necessarily a fact that games are more difficult to make. Sure the bar is higher, but that high bar is also easier to reach when you only produce formulaic games.
In reality, certain game aspects today are easier to make than ever before because game engines have become much more optimized for streamlined workflow, there is less focus on optimization because modern hardware can handle more complexity out of the box - which of course in return means games tend to be larger in scope because there is more time freed up from not having to overoptimize every little aspect of the game. It's an equation with multiple variables, and blanket statements such as games are more difficult to make today is not addressing the true complexity of videogame development in general.
What IS difficult, is making original and innovative games - that's actually what costs real money. And most AAA publishers are very afraid of taking this route and leave it to indie games that don't have to strive for that AAA polished look and need originality to stand out and be successful.
So TLDR; Making great looking/playing videogames are easier today than ever before - which in turn means scopes widen and bars are raised. Overwall it equals out, as there's also much more money to be made today where gaming in society has grown exponentially, so while games are larger, their revenue pool has also increased. So the argument that games are more expensive to make thus we raise the prices does not match real world context at all.
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zenoen
Just wanted to say Moore's Law is dead Leak/Claim was basically that Intel has effectively canceled its roadmap of launches and will be probably launching battlemage as a single low range card. He also claimed that the Intel GPU division may come back again in 2025 to effectively compete again but that we shouldn't expect future generations of DGPU's to be launched in large quantities. SO LETS BE CAREFUL ABOUT SAYING ANYONE IS WRONG OR LIEING. So far these statements do not conflict with each other in a meaningful degree. Steve says that ARC is not dead yet and will still be worked on and MLD says that the future product launches will be delayed to 2025 before we get any big DGPU products again but to expect to see the small cards coming soon. see Broken Silicon 170 at 47:50 this is where he talks about what his sources have told him. Please lets be courteous and responsible and keep things accurate to people's claims I'm sure he will do a video soon restating his exact claims again.
That being said if intel doesn't launch anything big till 2025 then I agree with MLD that Intel gutted there roadmap. most likely to pursue further R&D and to try again in the future.
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Just wanted to say Moore's Law is dead Leak/Claim was basically that Intel has effectively canceled its roadmap of launches and will be probably launching battlemage as a single low range card. He also claimed that the Intel GPU division may come back again in 2025 to effectively compete again but that we shouldn't expect future generations of DGPU's to be launched in large quantities. SO LETS BE CAREFUL ABOUT SAYING ANYONE IS WRONG OR LIEING. So far these statements do not conflict with each other in a meaningful degree. Steve says that ARC is not dead yet and will still be worked on and MLD says that the future product launches will be delayed to 2025 before we get any big DGPU products again but to expect to see the small cards coming soon. see Broken Silicon 170 at 47:50 this is where he talks about what his sources have told him. Please lets be courteous and responsible and keep things accurate to people's claims I'm sure he will do a video soon restating his exact claims again.
That being said if intel doesn't launch anything big till 2025 then I agree with MLD that Intel gutted there roadmap. most likely to pursue further R&D and to try again in the future.
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ShroudedWolf51
And that 70 USD price tag is also completely false. Since that's just the starter shell price of the game. If you want the actual complete game, you'll be easily paying 100-150+ USD as you have to cover the season pass, DLC not included in the season pass, collector's edition bonuses (or DLC that is only included in those)...and that's before you even get into micropayments and gamble boxes that run rampant throughout the AAA sector of the industry.
As for increased production costs, that's true in the most technical definition of the term, but is outright false. Nobody asked them to pour many millions into having the toppest of the top graphics. And, the audience for gaming is greater than ever, far more than making up for any development costs, even if they cut the cost from 60 to 40 for the starter shell price. And, going by how they can't even bother to finish it by launch dates, these AAA companies can go get bent.
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And that 70 USD price tag is also completely false. Since that's just the starter shell price of the game. If you want the actual complete game, you'll be easily paying 100-150+ USD as you have to cover the season pass, DLC not included in the season pass, collector's edition bonuses (or DLC that is only included in those)...and that's before you even get into micropayments and gamble boxes that run rampant throughout the AAA sector of the industry.
As for increased production costs, that's true in the most technical definition of the term, but is outright false. Nobody asked them to pour many millions into having the toppest of the top graphics. And, the audience for gaming is greater than ever, far more than making up for any development costs, even if they cut the cost from 60 to 40 for the starter shell price. And, going by how they can't even bother to finish it by launch dates, these AAA companies can go get bent.
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Mr
I realise this is a big question which will take effort to answer so any, answers very much appreciated. So i'm looking to buy a new system. Anyway I have been looking around at different providers and tbh it's all a bit overwhelming. I'm seeing so many discrepancies between sellers so i'm a bit lost and not really sure what I should get fairly for my money. I'm aware the recent shortage of components due to pandemic and things has artificially inflated prices and kinda threw everything up in the air. So with all that in mind, I was wondering what SPECS should I realistically expect for say around 2 grand? I know this isn't the place for this type of question but as I say I'm a bit lost an was hoping someone in chat could give me a bit of advice or at least point me in the direction of a fairly priced seller. Many thanks folks.
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I realise this is a big question which will take effort to answer so any, answers very much appreciated. So i'm looking to buy a new system. Anyway I have been looking around at different providers and tbh it's all a bit overwhelming. I'm seeing so many discrepancies between sellers so i'm a bit lost and not really sure what I should get fairly for my money. I'm aware the recent shortage of components due to pandemic and things has artificially inflated prices and kinda threw everything up in the air. So with all that in mind, I was wondering what SPECS should I realistically expect for say around 2 grand? I know this isn't the place for this type of question but as I say I'm a bit lost an was hoping someone in chat could give me a bit of advice or at least point me in the direction of a fairly priced seller. Many thanks folks.
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Al
So usualy triple A game is 60 'basic edition', better editions with some 'goodies' or season pass.. first 1-2-3 dlc's... etc is usualy 90-100 so that will jump to 120 for sure. Game will be interesting for 2-3-4 months than everything stops because company don't care about it anymore, they move to next 'project' and you got stuck with it.. and most of the games are full of crap lately because they don't care about it, they just want money.. and they justify quality of the game how many copies they sell and they don't count if they 'trick' people to buy their product with marketing or shiny trailers... and when you get the game is kinda too late, you already spend the money so.. yeah.. magic circle Yes i talking about you Battlefield 2042
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So usualy triple A game is 60 'basic edition', better editions with some 'goodies' or season pass.. first 1-2-3 dlc's... etc is usualy 90-100 so that will jump to 120 for sure. Game will be interesting for 2-3-4 months than everything stops because company don't care about it anymore, they move to next 'project' and you got stuck with it.. and most of the games are full of crap lately because they don't care about it, they just want money.. and they justify quality of the game how many copies they sell and they don't count if they 'trick' people to buy their product with marketing or shiny trailers... and when you get the game is kinda too late, you already spend the money so.. yeah.. magic circle Yes i talking about you Battlefield 2042
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John
As much as it pains me to say it, retail costs of AAA game titles should have gone up a very long time ago. According to folks I know in the industry, despite the steep rise in production costs, 60 was the bar publishers have been afraid to cross since the mid 00s, and this industry decision gave rise to increasingly slimy, anti-consumer monitization practices to take up the slack in revenue. Thanks in part to the new infusion of casual mainstream gamers who didn't know any better, those practices were accepted and got worse, and there was no getting that cash cow back in the barn. Raising retail prices now won't reverse this scummy trend, so now gamers will get it from both sides. Street Fighter II (1992) retailed at 70 -just sayin'.
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As much as it pains me to say it, retail costs of AAA game titles should have gone up a very long time ago. According to folks I know in the industry, despite the steep rise in production costs, 60 was the bar publishers have been afraid to cross since the mid 00s, and this industry decision gave rise to increasingly slimy, anti-consumer monitization practices to take up the slack in revenue. Thanks in part to the new infusion of casual mainstream gamers who didn't know any better, those practices were accepted and got worse, and there was no getting that cash cow back in the barn. Raising retail prices now won't reverse this scummy trend, so now gamers will get it from both sides. Street Fighter II (1992) retailed at 70 -just sayin'.
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pino
Press should pressure more about Battlemage from nowon then Arc. Arc is to late and no longer interesting. What is the status on Battlemage and what will be that release date. It is no longer worth buying arc unless it will be sub 200 bucks. I am way more interesting in what Battlemage is goiong to do ifg it can be released sooner rather then later and what is expected performance gains over Arc. And what about power draw as 225 for the 770 is to much already.
And looning at those burns those cables are NOT copper but metal. That is a poart of the problem on its own. more resistance = more heat. It clearly looks like rus1 on 1 photo and plain metal on another.
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Press should pressure more about Battlemage from nowon then Arc. Arc is to late and no longer interesting. What is the status on Battlemage and what will be that release date. It is no longer worth buying arc unless it will be sub 200 bucks. I am way more interesting in what Battlemage is goiong to do ifg it can be released sooner rather then later and what is expected performance gains over Arc. And what about power draw as 225 for the 770 is to much already.
And looning at those burns those cables are NOT copper but metal. That is a poart of the problem on its own. more resistance = more heat. It clearly looks like rus1 on 1 photo and plain metal on another.
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Lauri
I think a lot of indie games offer equal gaming opportunities compared to AAA titles. The production qualities are different of course, lack of voice acting, level sizes, detailed models etc. are all factors. But I find that games like Terraria and Risk of Rain 2 prove that there's strength in design and concepts. Terraria especially comes to mind. It along with Minecraft are one of the most valuable games on the market right now in a price to content ratio; the amount of gameplay hours you can get with that kind of money is incredible. And yes, of course this will vary depending what interests you and for how long.
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I think a lot of indie games offer equal gaming opportunities compared to AAA titles. The production qualities are different of course, lack of voice acting, level sizes, detailed models etc. are all factors. But I find that games like Terraria and Risk of Rain 2 prove that there's strength in design and concepts. Terraria especially comes to mind. It along with Minecraft are one of the most valuable games on the market right now in a price to content ratio; the amount of gameplay hours you can get with that kind of money is incredible. And yes, of course this will vary depending what interests you and for how long.
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NovusDundus
The whole 70 for a AAA games argument is more a blatant lie than anything else.
Publishers will argue that the quality is improving, thus a bigger price point is needed to cover costs.
But they're pulling a fast one.
The gaming market has grown year over year and rakes in multiple Billions, again, only growing.
But with AAA, studios don't/won't see ANY profit increases as it's the publishers that rake in the billions from profits.
It's really just them using quality to justify making themselves even more billions, with the actual devs making the product never seeing a cent of it.
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The whole 70 for a AAA games argument is more a blatant lie than anything else.
Publishers will argue that the quality is improving, thus a bigger price point is needed to cover costs.
But they're pulling a fast one.
The gaming market has grown year over year and rakes in multiple Billions, again, only growing.
But with AAA, studios don't/won't see ANY profit increases as it's the publishers that rake in the billions from profits.
It's really just them using quality to justify making themselves even more billions, with the actual devs making the product never seeing a cent of it.
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itech
I haven't purchased a game that was over 45 USD in about two decades. In my biased opinion, with the invention of mass online distribution came the invention of mass we'll fix that bug later, if people notice which, in turn, has lead to a more lazy way of game development and management. I try not to reward that behaviour.
On a side note, you know it's a crazy time in technological history when Seagate and Dell, of all companies, have the lowest sample of drive failures. Personally, I have yet to own a Seagate drive that didn't fail before reaching 500 work days.
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I haven't purchased a game that was over 45 USD in about two decades. In my biased opinion, with the invention of mass online distribution came the invention of mass we'll fix that bug later, if people notice which, in turn, has lead to a more lazy way of game development and management. I try not to reward that behaviour.
On a side note, you know it's a crazy time in technological history when Seagate and Dell, of all companies, have the lowest sample of drive failures. Personally, I have yet to own a Seagate drive that didn't fail before reaching 500 work days.
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XDbored1
the last games i paid full AAA price for were Cyberpunk2077 and Fallout 4, with the burn from both, and the widespread TAA blindness simulator issues plaguing most new games i don't feel the want to play any new AAA games at all,
i could play a older game that actually works and get it cheap on a steam sale too, or i could play a Indies game that drip sheer quality in concentrations orders of magnitude higher like Viserafest, or Project Warlock, or Factorio, even stuff like Vampire Survivers is way better then any AAA game i can remember from recent years.
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the last games i paid full AAA price for were Cyberpunk2077 and Fallout 4, with the burn from both, and the widespread TAA blindness simulator issues plaguing most new games i don't feel the want to play any new AAA games at all,
i could play a older game that actually works and get it cheap on a steam sale too, or i could play a Indies game that drip sheer quality in concentrations orders of magnitude higher like Viserafest, or Project Warlock, or Factorio, even stuff like Vampire Survivers is way better then any AAA game i can remember from recent years.
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Psi
If intel builds cards that for 50% of the money bring 45% of the power in comparison to nvidia and intel, while they are hopefully more efficient, silent or simply available because of miner disinterest.
Then that would be a reason for me to buy.
I usually buy gpu+cpu so i dont have to worry about lowering settings. For years the hardware was now good enough to do that without buying the most expensive stuff since i do not need to game at 4K 144Hz, wasting lots of money and power for minor improvements.
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If intel builds cards that for 50% of the money bring 45% of the power in comparison to nvidia and intel, while they are hopefully more efficient, silent or simply available because of miner disinterest.
Then that would be a reason for me to buy.
I usually buy gpu+cpu so i dont have to worry about lowering settings. For years the hardware was now good enough to do that without buying the most expensive stuff since i do not need to game at 4K 144Hz, wasting lots of money and power for minor improvements.
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SHODAN
Honestly the whole solution to things with microtransactions and an excessive DLC model is to simply stop, just buy the games with a a decent level of content with no additional purchases at the RRP level if that's what you desire. Gamers have this really annoying habit of just spending time on games they don't really like for no apparent reason and considering how much other entertainment options there are these days, don't play games for the sake of playing games, it just makes you jaded about them.
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Honestly the whole solution to things with microtransactions and an excessive DLC model is to simply stop, just buy the games with a a decent level of content with no additional purchases at the RRP level if that's what you desire. Gamers have this really annoying habit of just spending time on games they don't really like for no apparent reason and considering how much other entertainment options there are these days, don't play games for the sake of playing games, it just makes you jaded about them.
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