Super Tuned AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT vs. Intel i5-10600K: RAM Timings & Infinity Fabric Overclocks
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Date: 2020-07-12
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Comments and reviews: 10
Duvar
You would be very surprised, if you downclock the 10600k to 3.9/3.8GHz (Core/Cache) but keep the RAM OC active. You will still be faster than any Ryzen but consume only 30-40W Package Power (Gaming). (31W for me with my optimized 8700k with 3900CL15 tight subs) Running 3.8/3.7GHz at 0.912V. IMHO this is the way to go, try to get everything with RAM OC but at the same time downclock and hardcore UV the CPU and you will see insane results. I am even much faster than a stock 10900k in f.e. KCD Benchmark over KCD PCGH Forums Benchmarkthread but with max OC (39 vs 52 FPS AVG). With my max UV Setup i am still faster than the stock 10900k (39 vs 41 FPS and i need 31W Package Power for that and faster than any OC Ryzen there) Thanks to Capframe X you can see power consumption and many more data, i would reccomend that tool for everyone. Make a video about that, you have to combine all the good things together, the first good thing is max RAM OC and the second max UV (but keep the Cachclock same Lvl as the Coreclock). In Games you will be much faster than stock, your power consumption will go drastically down, because RAM OC gives you many FPS but costs nearly zero power. This is the best way to show the people how strong Intel is, if you take the efficiency/temp/loudness factor away from AMD too and still show that you are much faster.
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You would be very surprised, if you downclock the 10600k to 3.9/3.8GHz (Core/Cache) but keep the RAM OC active. You will still be faster than any Ryzen but consume only 30-40W Package Power (Gaming). (31W for me with my optimized 8700k with 3900CL15 tight subs) Running 3.8/3.7GHz at 0.912V. IMHO this is the way to go, try to get everything with RAM OC but at the same time downclock and hardcore UV the CPU and you will see insane results. I am even much faster than a stock 10900k in f.e. KCD Benchmark over KCD PCGH Forums Benchmarkthread but with max OC (39 vs 52 FPS AVG). With my max UV Setup i am still faster than the stock 10900k (39 vs 41 FPS and i need 31W Package Power for that and faster than any OC Ryzen there) Thanks to Capframe X you can see power consumption and many more data, i would reccomend that tool for everyone. Make a video about that, you have to combine all the good things together, the first good thing is max RAM OC and the second max UV (but keep the Cachclock same Lvl as the Coreclock). In Games you will be much faster than stock, your power consumption will go drastically down, because RAM OC gives you many FPS but costs nearly zero power. This is the best way to show the people how strong Intel is, if you take the efficiency/temp/loudness factor away from AMD too and still show that you are much faster.
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Adam
My guess is, as long as a Ryzen CPU has higher main RAM access latency, it would limit the highest framerate. (To be clear, I'm an AMD fanboy, and enjoy the multi-core performance way more than the not-so-important gaming performance)
All modern GPUs go PCIE, which means all its communication goes through its PCIE root complex to access the main RAM. All interruption is handled by MSI-X in the memory mapped IO, no longer pin based interruption.
This means, when GPU completes one frame, it writes the completion message to main RAM, and CPU still needs to access that RAM location to handle the completion event.
And AMD Ryzen CPUs have almost the worse RAM access delay due to the dedicated IO die, compared to the ring/mess method from Intel.
That main RAM access delay would be more and more obvious when the framerate goes higher and higher, thus less and less time budget to fetch the RAM.
Thus even if the infinite fabric can go beyond 2000, if the RAM access latency is still high, the framerate will still be limited.
Unless AMD goes some complex algorithm to make PCIE root complex to send updated RAM content to L3 directly, while still keep the content synchronized between L3 and main RAM, the highest framerate would still be limited.
reply
My guess is, as long as a Ryzen CPU has higher main RAM access latency, it would limit the highest framerate. (To be clear, I'm an AMD fanboy, and enjoy the multi-core performance way more than the not-so-important gaming performance)
All modern GPUs go PCIE, which means all its communication goes through its PCIE root complex to access the main RAM. All interruption is handled by MSI-X in the memory mapped IO, no longer pin based interruption.
This means, when GPU completes one frame, it writes the completion message to main RAM, and CPU still needs to access that RAM location to handle the completion event.
And AMD Ryzen CPUs have almost the worse RAM access delay due to the dedicated IO die, compared to the ring/mess method from Intel.
That main RAM access delay would be more and more obvious when the framerate goes higher and higher, thus less and less time budget to fetch the RAM.
Thus even if the infinite fabric can go beyond 2000, if the RAM access latency is still high, the framerate will still be limited.
Unless AMD goes some complex algorithm to make PCIE root complex to send updated RAM content to L3 directly, while still keep the content synchronized between L3 and main RAM, the highest framerate would still be limited.
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User
It would be interesting to see a video of how far intel blows amd out of the water when both systems are pushed as far/hard as possible while retaining stability in ambient conditions. Give amd highest stable core clocks possible and a fully tuned CL14-3800 with 1900 flck, the best config for amd possible, or if they can beat the latency penalty from desyncing the IF/ram with enough extra ram frequency, do that. Then give intel the highest stable core clocks + cache clock possible and a fully tuned CL17-5000mhz or CL18-5000mhz configuration, one of the best config for intel possible. The difference is like night and day for 1080p full ultra seetings on a 2080ti between the two brands.
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It would be interesting to see a video of how far intel blows amd out of the water when both systems are pushed as far/hard as possible while retaining stability in ambient conditions. Give amd highest stable core clocks possible and a fully tuned CL14-3800 with 1900 flck, the best config for amd possible, or if they can beat the latency penalty from desyncing the IF/ram with enough extra ram frequency, do that. Then give intel the highest stable core clocks + cache clock possible and a fully tuned CL17-5000mhz or CL18-5000mhz configuration, one of the best config for intel possible. The difference is like night and day for 1080p full ultra seetings on a 2080ti between the two brands.
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JOMARS
So you need a lot of tweak and ultra high speed memory to match stock 10600k performance, hope ryzen 4000 can change this, I don't even know why people are so blind by amd,
What I want to say is you need a really high cost memory for ryzen, to match a stock 10600k on gaming, and the 10600k is still good on multi, the cost of those memory you can save, buy some cheap coolede and make the 10600k run all cores at 5ghz and have even more fps without a fancy memory, think a second what will happen when Intel can actually change their node, AMD will loose in every aspect, ddr4 was absolutely stable when 6000 series was launched, meanwhile the problem that amd was having was insane.
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So you need a lot of tweak and ultra high speed memory to match stock 10600k performance, hope ryzen 4000 can change this, I don't even know why people are so blind by amd,
What I want to say is you need a really high cost memory for ryzen, to match a stock 10600k on gaming, and the 10600k is still good on multi, the cost of those memory you can save, buy some cheap coolede and make the 10600k run all cores at 5ghz and have even more fps without a fancy memory, think a second what will happen when Intel can actually change their node, AMD will loose in every aspect, ddr4 was absolutely stable when 6000 series was launched, meanwhile the problem that amd was having was insane.
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TheSinisterEyes1
I personally like memory tuning more than just a CPU overclock.
I was able to buy a kit that had samsung b-die 16gb for 60 dollars(which made no sense since the kit i bought before for my brother was hynix) a few years back which was a miraculous chance since it was a cheap corsair vengeance memory.
the end result was on my 2700x i was able to do 3400mhz cl 13-14-14-14 1.425v and sub timings are also much lower. i was able to get 59ns memory latency on aida64. though it took me like 2 full days of tinkering to get the correct settings. i was able to run this for about 7 months till it degraded(might be my cpu) now it can do the same timings but at 3200mhz.
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I personally like memory tuning more than just a CPU overclock.
I was able to buy a kit that had samsung b-die 16gb for 60 dollars(which made no sense since the kit i bought before for my brother was hynix) a few years back which was a miraculous chance since it was a cheap corsair vengeance memory.
the end result was on my 2700x i was able to do 3400mhz cl 13-14-14-14 1.425v and sub timings are also much lower. i was able to get 59ns memory latency on aida64. though it took me like 2 full days of tinkering to get the correct settings. i was able to run this for about 7 months till it degraded(might be my cpu) now it can do the same timings but at 3200mhz.
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Swordhero1
I'm so early I haven't yet bought thermal grizzly's conductonaught liquid metal, which is what Gamers nexus uses in all of their liquid metal and delid thermal tests, capable of dropping CPU thermals significant when replacing the stock thermal interface. Lower CPU thermals don't just allow better overclocks, but also lower noise levels because the transfer efficiency is increased. The mixture of gallium and indium makes for a thermal conductivity of 73 Watts per meter kelvin, outclassing traditional pastes significantly. I haven't even learned more at the link in the description below yet!
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I'm so early I haven't yet bought thermal grizzly's conductonaught liquid metal, which is what Gamers nexus uses in all of their liquid metal and delid thermal tests, capable of dropping CPU thermals significant when replacing the stock thermal interface. Lower CPU thermals don't just allow better overclocks, but also lower noise levels because the transfer efficiency is increased. The mixture of gallium and indium makes for a thermal conductivity of 73 Watts per meter kelvin, outclassing traditional pastes significantly. I haven't even learned more at the link in the description below yet!
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Nemesis
I dont know if i would dish out that kind of money for a ram kit to pair with a 6core cpu.
For reference 16gb kit of gskill ripjaws 4000mhz 15-16-16-36 same xmp speeds mentioned by steve so mostly same silicone diffrent heatsink costs 200 . Where as normal 16gb of good old 3200mhz 16-18-18-38 kit costs 60 . Between the 3600xt and the ram that 140 delta buys you a 3900x or a 3700x with still 100 to spare. I think such tests should be limited to flagship cpus like 3900x/xt or 3950x
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I dont know if i would dish out that kind of money for a ram kit to pair with a 6core cpu.
For reference 16gb kit of gskill ripjaws 4000mhz 15-16-16-36 same xmp speeds mentioned by steve so mostly same silicone diffrent heatsink costs 200 . Where as normal 16gb of good old 3200mhz 16-18-18-38 kit costs 60 . Between the 3600xt and the ram that 140 delta buys you a 3900x or a 3700x with still 100 to spare. I think such tests should be limited to flagship cpus like 3900x/xt or 3950x
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AlphaJon
11:00 >> A new lauched SKU, a day of fine tuning = almost at the gaming-level of a (late )2017 Intel CPU.
Well.. For gaming the Intel just makes more sense. though the Zen 2 has slightly higher IPC (for use with real workloads)
But really... Nothing to get exited about.
My advise for most gamers.. get the 8700K, (2nd hand for 250), cheapest Z370/390 board. cheapest DDR4-3000 RAM for an easy plug&play no worries solution. Just load XMP, and all set.
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11:00 >> A new lauched SKU, a day of fine tuning = almost at the gaming-level of a (late )2017 Intel CPU.
Well.. For gaming the Intel just makes more sense. though the Zen 2 has slightly higher IPC (for use with real workloads)
But really... Nothing to get exited about.
My advise for most gamers.. get the 8700K, (2nd hand for 250), cheapest Z370/390 board. cheapest DDR4-3000 RAM for an easy plug&play no worries solution. Just load XMP, and all set.
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Daily
Almost all zen 2 chips I got were able to do 1900 fclk/3800mhz with 0.950 vddg and 1.1Soc, I was expecting atleast 2000/4000 with this refresh
That's sad.
Edit: I used both bdie and with e-die on mostly 3600's , no geardown mode, tested properly for hours, with really tuned subtimings ( with 4.3 I did 62.6 in Aida and 63.5 at 4.2 with bdie and a little more with Edie ( mostly trfc limitations compared to e-die Wich is cheaper, way cheaper )
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Almost all zen 2 chips I got were able to do 1900 fclk/3800mhz with 0.950 vddg and 1.1Soc, I was expecting atleast 2000/4000 with this refresh
That's sad.
Edit: I used both bdie and with e-die on mostly 3600's , no geardown mode, tested properly for hours, with really tuned subtimings ( with 4.3 I did 62.6 in Aida and 63.5 at 4.2 with bdie and a little more with Edie ( mostly trfc limitations compared to e-die Wich is cheaper, way cheaper )
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Christopher
As someone who typically under-volts my CPU, I appreciate the info about how much you can overclock with an under-volt. I'm always looking for the most stable performance for the least power. I usually end up under-volting for laptops to keep thermals in check, but my desktop also gets the same treatment when performing menial tasks like studying since I'll be at my desktop for at least 20 hours a week going over different classes.
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As someone who typically under-volts my CPU, I appreciate the info about how much you can overclock with an under-volt. I'm always looking for the most stable performance for the least power. I usually end up under-volting for laptops to keep thermals in check, but my desktop also gets the same treatment when performing menial tasks like studying since I'll be at my desktop for at least 20 hours a week going over different classes.
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