What ACTUALLY Happened To Khashoggi, Why It Matters, & What Happens Next?
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Date: 2019-11-01
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Comments and reviews: 9
Joe Woelfling
Philip, First, I don't think anyone should be attacked and Killed as Mr Khashoggi was. I hope he finds peace. When I read articles like Mr Khashoggi. I always try to look at it from both sides. So I am going to rewrite the pop-outs you displayed but looking at it from another perspective. Not about Arabs, but Americans. I am going to change only a few words. (CAPITALIZED) Does that make it untrue for our country? Just because we are a Free Country? As a result, AMERICANS living in the USA are either uninformed or misinformed. They are unable to adequately address, much less publicly discuss, matters that affect their country and their day-to-day lives. A MAIN STREAM MEDIA (MSM) run narrative dominates the public psyche, and while many do not believe it. A large majority of the populations falls victim to this false narrative. Sadly, The situation is likely to unchange. AMERICA is facing it's own version of an Iron Curtain, Imposed not by External Actors, but through domestic forces vying for power. AMERICA needs a Modern Version of the old Transnational media so citizens can be informed about global events. More important, we need to provide a platform for AMERICAN voices. We suffer from poverty, mismanagement, and poor PUBLIC education. Through the creation of an independent (international) forum, Isolated from the Influence of MAIN STREAM MEDIA spreading hate thru BIASED NEWS REPORTS, Ordinary people in america would be able to address the structural problems AMERICAN Society facesMy own personal opinion is that anyone with an agenda will do anything to use power to accomplish that agenda, Whether it is Governments, NGOs, or Popular News outlets.
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Philip, First, I don't think anyone should be attacked and Killed as Mr Khashoggi was. I hope he finds peace. When I read articles like Mr Khashoggi. I always try to look at it from both sides. So I am going to rewrite the pop-outs you displayed but looking at it from another perspective. Not about Arabs, but Americans. I am going to change only a few words. (CAPITALIZED) Does that make it untrue for our country? Just because we are a Free Country? As a result, AMERICANS living in the USA are either uninformed or misinformed. They are unable to adequately address, much less publicly discuss, matters that affect their country and their day-to-day lives. A MAIN STREAM MEDIA (MSM) run narrative dominates the public psyche, and while many do not believe it. A large majority of the populations falls victim to this false narrative. Sadly, The situation is likely to unchange. AMERICA is facing it's own version of an Iron Curtain, Imposed not by External Actors, but through domestic forces vying for power. AMERICA needs a Modern Version of the old Transnational media so citizens can be informed about global events. More important, we need to provide a platform for AMERICAN voices. We suffer from poverty, mismanagement, and poor PUBLIC education. Through the creation of an independent (international) forum, Isolated from the Influence of MAIN STREAM MEDIA spreading hate thru BIASED NEWS REPORTS, Ordinary people in america would be able to address the structural problems AMERICAN Society facesMy own personal opinion is that anyone with an agenda will do anything to use power to accomplish that agenda, Whether it is Governments, NGOs, or Popular News outlets.
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Rae Megami
pretty good commentary. i think saudi arabia's actions in yemen are more accurately called a genocide and america's support as genocide enablement, but otherwise your assessment of the situation seems accurate; the saudis did it, they're probably going to come up with a scapegoat that no one is going to buy, and then trump's going to say see he didn't do it we can still sell them weapons to murder yemeni civilians. the only reason this has been in the news as long as it has is because it was a journalist killed, and that tends to rile up even the most neo-liberal hawks into action, but once the saudis get their story straight that's going to die down and this'll fall out of the news cycle. the most surprising thing about this whole situation is turkey's newfound international cred. as you're seeing turkey warp from secular democracy to islamist state, and the human rights abuses that come with that, they've been given this unintentional gift of good will from the sudis to expose their murder of khashoggi and whatever coverups they try and project the image of a nation that's concerned with truth and justice. you can't buy that kind of good press, and neither america nor saudi arabia are going to be able to discredit them too much for that.
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pretty good commentary. i think saudi arabia's actions in yemen are more accurately called a genocide and america's support as genocide enablement, but otherwise your assessment of the situation seems accurate; the saudis did it, they're probably going to come up with a scapegoat that no one is going to buy, and then trump's going to say see he didn't do it we can still sell them weapons to murder yemeni civilians. the only reason this has been in the news as long as it has is because it was a journalist killed, and that tends to rile up even the most neo-liberal hawks into action, but once the saudis get their story straight that's going to die down and this'll fall out of the news cycle. the most surprising thing about this whole situation is turkey's newfound international cred. as you're seeing turkey warp from secular democracy to islamist state, and the human rights abuses that come with that, they've been given this unintentional gift of good will from the sudis to expose their murder of khashoggi and whatever coverups they try and project the image of a nation that's concerned with truth and justice. you can't buy that kind of good press, and neither america nor saudi arabia are going to be able to discredit them too much for that.
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Jonathan Williams
To what degree is America complicit in the murder of Khashoggi? Since the time Trump bestowed Saudi Arabia with the honor of being the first country visited by the newly elected American President, Saudi Arabia has been rapidly escalating their efforts to gain more power and control in the region. They have become emboldened by the early support from our President. 1) Killing thousands in Yemen. 2) Imposing a blockade against neighbor Qatar. 3) The prince detained Lebanon's prime minister and forced him to resign. 4) The prince ordered the arrest of hundreds of Saudi activists and business leaders. Trump and the White House has allowed all these behaviors to go unchallenged. The administration has been too happy to ignore Saudi Arabia's brutality as long as it doesn't capture the attention the American public discourse. Additionally Trump's irresponsible and casual rhetoric concerning rule of law and freedom of the press seem like harmless jokes to his voting base. However to our allies, some whose freedoms stand on less strong footing, Trump's rhetoric emboldens the oppressor to cross where the line was once drawn to discover how much further down he can descend before a new line appears.
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To what degree is America complicit in the murder of Khashoggi? Since the time Trump bestowed Saudi Arabia with the honor of being the first country visited by the newly elected American President, Saudi Arabia has been rapidly escalating their efforts to gain more power and control in the region. They have become emboldened by the early support from our President. 1) Killing thousands in Yemen. 2) Imposing a blockade against neighbor Qatar. 3) The prince detained Lebanon's prime minister and forced him to resign. 4) The prince ordered the arrest of hundreds of Saudi activists and business leaders. Trump and the White House has allowed all these behaviors to go unchallenged. The administration has been too happy to ignore Saudi Arabia's brutality as long as it doesn't capture the attention the American public discourse. Additionally Trump's irresponsible and casual rhetoric concerning rule of law and freedom of the press seem like harmless jokes to his voting base. However to our allies, some whose freedoms stand on less strong footing, Trump's rhetoric emboldens the oppressor to cross where the line was once drawn to discover how much further down he can descend before a new line appears.
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Fern Moore
Unfortunately, diplomacy sometimes means not doing the right thing in the moment but waiting for the right opportunity. (It's not like the US can throw stones when the Clintons and Bushes have not been held to account for their crimes) As long as the Saudi royals have plausible deniability our hands are tied and it's a bit too costly atm to act on suspicion alone. We can't do anything in the region without Saudi support and we can't act against the Saudi's without starting WW3 because of the holiness attributed to the very land they occupy. It's better to try to influence them through friendly means, which may mean the government take a back seat and sanctions be enacted through private initiative. If the larger global free market players refuse to do business there the people may start scrutinizing the actions of their government more closely. What the US should be doing moving forward is scrutinizing Saudi financial contributions and influence in our elections. Are our politicians turning a blind eye because it's in our national interest or because it's in THEIR interest?
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Unfortunately, diplomacy sometimes means not doing the right thing in the moment but waiting for the right opportunity. (It's not like the US can throw stones when the Clintons and Bushes have not been held to account for their crimes) As long as the Saudi royals have plausible deniability our hands are tied and it's a bit too costly atm to act on suspicion alone. We can't do anything in the region without Saudi support and we can't act against the Saudi's without starting WW3 because of the holiness attributed to the very land they occupy. It's better to try to influence them through friendly means, which may mean the government take a back seat and sanctions be enacted through private initiative. If the larger global free market players refuse to do business there the people may start scrutinizing the actions of their government more closely. What the US should be doing moving forward is scrutinizing Saudi financial contributions and influence in our elections. Are our politicians turning a blind eye because it's in our national interest or because it's in THEIR interest?
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Sara Miller
This is an opinion that does not reflect how I feel. I do not support Trump or his administration. I think that the Saudis will come up with a good enough scapegoat or cover up that will placate the Trump administration and their supporters. Trump supporters are pretty unwavering. They will trust in the Trump administration. As for the rest of us, there will be an outcry but it will die out. Kashoggi's death isn't the first and certainly will not be the last in the political scheme of things. It's sad but our government deals with the Saudis on too many levels. Oil prices would sky rocket, the US would lose contract bids on various deals, and our strategic positions would be threatened. Which scenario would any administration choose? One that is a public outcry for a small amount of time over a mostly unknown journalist or public discord over oil prices and lost contracts? Lockheed, Raydeon, and other companies that contract with the US government would not be happy.
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This is an opinion that does not reflect how I feel. I do not support Trump or his administration. I think that the Saudis will come up with a good enough scapegoat or cover up that will placate the Trump administration and their supporters. Trump supporters are pretty unwavering. They will trust in the Trump administration. As for the rest of us, there will be an outcry but it will die out. Kashoggi's death isn't the first and certainly will not be the last in the political scheme of things. It's sad but our government deals with the Saudis on too many levels. Oil prices would sky rocket, the US would lose contract bids on various deals, and our strategic positions would be threatened. Which scenario would any administration choose? One that is a public outcry for a small amount of time over a mostly unknown journalist or public discord over oil prices and lost contracts? Lockheed, Raydeon, and other companies that contract with the US government would not be happy.
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Linda Ceriello
What is really troubling here is if the US does nothing because it may loose money over arms deals it sends a very troubling message. money is more important than human lives. No thin veil of deception, no attempts at even making it look like diplomacy. clearly it is a matter of money. Now there is a smear campaign against Khashoggi's reputation and even Pat Roberts came out and stated that we can't sanction Saudi Arabia because we may loose out on an arms deal. Now even Pat Roberts cares more about money than a human live. some wonderful Christian he isThe more the US continues to back these murderous tyrants, the more we become just like these horrible regimes. We are sliding down the slippery slope and in 10 or 20 years the US may start to look like some of the middle eastern countries today. It is more important than ever that everyone exercise their right to vote. while still can.
reply
What is really troubling here is if the US does nothing because it may loose money over arms deals it sends a very troubling message. money is more important than human lives. No thin veil of deception, no attempts at even making it look like diplomacy. clearly it is a matter of money. Now there is a smear campaign against Khashoggi's reputation and even Pat Roberts came out and stated that we can't sanction Saudi Arabia because we may loose out on an arms deal. Now even Pat Roberts cares more about money than a human live. some wonderful Christian he isThe more the US continues to back these murderous tyrants, the more we become just like these horrible regimes. We are sliding down the slippery slope and in 10 or 20 years the US may start to look like some of the middle eastern countries today. It is more important than ever that everyone exercise their right to vote. while still can.
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Tesis
Trump or not, it's weird to expect the US to do anything of essence to Saudi Arabia. If it was any other country though. The thing is, whatever they do NOT do now, the US, Europe etc, their inability to come up with swift and harsh actions only proves to these governments that as long as you are the US' friend and give them money, you are exempt ftom accountability for human rights violations and crimes against humanity. This is indeed a dreadful message for those who like Khashoggi fights for the freedom of thought, speech and consciousness. If these people running from oppressive governments and bloody regimes cannot be safe on another country's soil, are killed in another sovereign state's territory, beheaded, and dismembered, all the while those who present themselves as human rights police/protectors do nothing - that's a very dark day for Khashoggi's of the world.
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Trump or not, it's weird to expect the US to do anything of essence to Saudi Arabia. If it was any other country though. The thing is, whatever they do NOT do now, the US, Europe etc, their inability to come up with swift and harsh actions only proves to these governments that as long as you are the US' friend and give them money, you are exempt ftom accountability for human rights violations and crimes against humanity. This is indeed a dreadful message for those who like Khashoggi fights for the freedom of thought, speech and consciousness. If these people running from oppressive governments and bloody regimes cannot be safe on another country's soil, are killed in another sovereign state's territory, beheaded, and dismembered, all the while those who present themselves as human rights police/protectors do nothing - that's a very dark day for Khashoggi's of the world.
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Wikickid
My brother and I use double speak when we talk about politics inside our own homes. It's like living in 1984, where we should all be happy and believe what our leaders tell us completely without questioning it. Say anything and you're arrested and 'corrected'. It's horrible. We don't even have news about the journalist here, no one says anything. No one wants to be the person to bring up the situation, all afraid that someone will report them. The only reason I even knew about all of this before even a wink of it was mentioned in the local news is that I actually read international news. Why do I read the international news? Because I'm sick and tired of reading another happy piece about someone visiting a school and how proud we are about this event happening. That I don't get what's happening in the world unless you I search for it. This is why I watch you Phil.
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My brother and I use double speak when we talk about politics inside our own homes. It's like living in 1984, where we should all be happy and believe what our leaders tell us completely without questioning it. Say anything and you're arrested and 'corrected'. It's horrible. We don't even have news about the journalist here, no one says anything. No one wants to be the person to bring up the situation, all afraid that someone will report them. The only reason I even knew about all of this before even a wink of it was mentioned in the local news is that I actually read international news. Why do I read the international news? Because I'm sick and tired of reading another happy piece about someone visiting a school and how proud we are about this event happening. That I don't get what's happening in the world unless you I search for it. This is why I watch you Phil.
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The Other Side
What investigation and evidence provision took place before US sent missiles to Syria? 14 of the 19 terrorists that attacked on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia just started allowing women to drive few months ago. No such thing as election in that country. Journalists are not free to practice. Any religion that is not Islam is not allowed to be practised in public. The list is endless. And through all these, US presidents keep licking the asses of the Saudi family cause of oil and money and countering Iran. US accused China and Russia of human rights violations and ignore Saudi were women can't even be independent. Call it what it is. Political BS. It takes money to buy US integrity. The Saudis know that so they always give Washington as much as it wants. These guys can send a missile to Switzerland and US will be like we want further investigation.
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What investigation and evidence provision took place before US sent missiles to Syria? 14 of the 19 terrorists that attacked on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia just started allowing women to drive few months ago. No such thing as election in that country. Journalists are not free to practice. Any religion that is not Islam is not allowed to be practised in public. The list is endless. And through all these, US presidents keep licking the asses of the Saudi family cause of oil and money and countering Iran. US accused China and Russia of human rights violations and ignore Saudi were women can't even be independent. Call it what it is. Political BS. It takes money to buy US integrity. The Saudis know that so they always give Washington as much as it wants. These guys can send a missile to Switzerland and US will be like we want further investigation.
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