When Did the Romans Become Italians? Documentary
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Date: 2022-07-19
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Comments and reviews: 20
Meta
Around WW1, up to that point many were still pretty regional and only spoke their dialect, being all in the trenches changed that, than public school was invented and people learned Italian in School, so pretty recently.
People make the mistake of thinking there's a year where the year before people in the peninsula were Romans and the year after they were Italians, that's not the case, the Roman identity wasn't replaced by another national identity but by regional identity and it is from the many regional identities that the national identity of Italians will be slowly born throughout centuries of intellectuals trying to unite Italy starting from the 13th century up untill recently, in fact when Italy was born most of the people living in it still didn't all consider themselves Italian, as the famous quote from Massimo d'Azeglio goes we made Italy, now we need to make the Italians which happened trough WW1 where every adult young man was together at the front for a long period of time and trough public schools.
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Around WW1, up to that point many were still pretty regional and only spoke their dialect, being all in the trenches changed that, than public school was invented and people learned Italian in School, so pretty recently.
People make the mistake of thinking there's a year where the year before people in the peninsula were Romans and the year after they were Italians, that's not the case, the Roman identity wasn't replaced by another national identity but by regional identity and it is from the many regional identities that the national identity of Italians will be slowly born throughout centuries of intellectuals trying to unite Italy starting from the 13th century up untill recently, in fact when Italy was born most of the people living in it still didn't all consider themselves Italian, as the famous quote from Massimo d'Azeglio goes we made Italy, now we need to make the Italians which happened trough WW1 where every adult young man was together at the front for a long period of time and trough public schools.
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WALN
There are still separatist sentiments in Italy.
Sicilians, you'll find, identify themselves as Sicilians first, and Italians second. Although some will not even bother with the second. There's also tensions between northern and southern Italy.
I think this is the case because of both political and cultural reasons. But mostly it's the political shenanigans that are dividing Italians, and the cultural assertion is more of a side effect of that.
An independent Sicily and the fracturing of mainland Italy into at least two pieces, to me, a filthy American, seems to be growing ever more likely.
If that happens, I think the people of Italy will largely still call themselves Italian, but there will be an understanding that there are two or more different types of Italian with different customs and beliefs. As the Irish and Scottish are both Celtic, there are differences that may keep them from seeing themselves as very close. Like Protestantism vs. Catholicism.
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There are still separatist sentiments in Italy.
Sicilians, you'll find, identify themselves as Sicilians first, and Italians second. Although some will not even bother with the second. There's also tensions between northern and southern Italy.
I think this is the case because of both political and cultural reasons. But mostly it's the political shenanigans that are dividing Italians, and the cultural assertion is more of a side effect of that.
An independent Sicily and the fracturing of mainland Italy into at least two pieces, to me, a filthy American, seems to be growing ever more likely.
If that happens, I think the people of Italy will largely still call themselves Italian, but there will be an understanding that there are two or more different types of Italian with different customs and beliefs. As the Irish and Scottish are both Celtic, there are differences that may keep them from seeing themselves as very close. Like Protestantism vs. Catholicism.
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Zumzifero
Recent analysis on DNA of modern Italians shows that there is almost nothing left of what was the genetic heritage of the Romans. It seems to have happened around 550AD as the Gothic wars were scrounging the peninsula.
With Narses Army came the Justinian pest that seems to have affected the Romans much more of other strands, to the point that it technically wiped out Roman DNA entirely. Procopius tells us Italy was almost inhabited and some historians think the resident population after the fall of the Ostrogothic Kingdom was less then four hundred thousands across the peninsula, compared with the almost 2 millions living just in Rome in Imperial times. Most of those were either of Greeks, Celtic or German heritage and the influx of people form Pannonia, Germany France and the Mediterranean sealed the fate of what little was remaining of the Latin inhabitants which we call Romans.
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Recent analysis on DNA of modern Italians shows that there is almost nothing left of what was the genetic heritage of the Romans. It seems to have happened around 550AD as the Gothic wars were scrounging the peninsula.
With Narses Army came the Justinian pest that seems to have affected the Romans much more of other strands, to the point that it technically wiped out Roman DNA entirely. Procopius tells us Italy was almost inhabited and some historians think the resident population after the fall of the Ostrogothic Kingdom was less then four hundred thousands across the peninsula, compared with the almost 2 millions living just in Rome in Imperial times. Most of those were either of Greeks, Celtic or German heritage and the influx of people form Pannonia, Germany France and the Mediterranean sealed the fate of what little was remaining of the Latin inhabitants which we call Romans.
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UTJK
The notion of Italy as a whole, was a concept clear to the Romans too. From the river Rubicone and towards South, that was Italy, North of Rubicone it was Gallia (Celts territory. Some even see the roots of an united Italy, in the attempt of Frederick II Hohenstaufen to join the German and Northern Italian regions to the Kingdom of Siciliy he ruled. That is pure speculation, but technically that would have been a political and administrative reunification, if succeded.
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The notion of Italy as a whole, was a concept clear to the Romans too. From the river Rubicone and towards South, that was Italy, North of Rubicone it was Gallia (Celts territory. Some even see the roots of an united Italy, in the attempt of Frederick II Hohenstaufen to join the German and Northern Italian regions to the Kingdom of Siciliy he ruled. That is pure speculation, but technically that would have been a political and administrative reunification, if succeded.
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Transport
These videos are interesting but why do so many of such producers have this weird way of speaking, i. e. very quickly with all the sentences run together like one long sentence. Its not easy to listen to and I have to keep backing up to listen to bits again in order to take it all in. Can you not slow down and have more natural pauses between sentences, like normal people speak? It would make it a lot more pleasant to listen to. Thanks.
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These videos are interesting but why do so many of such producers have this weird way of speaking, i. e. very quickly with all the sentences run together like one long sentence. Its not easy to listen to and I have to keep backing up to listen to bits again in order to take it all in. Can you not slow down and have more natural pauses between sentences, like normal people speak? It would make it a lot more pleasant to listen to. Thanks.
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sharperguy
The printing press meant that books could be mass distributed in local languages rather than written by hand by monks in Latin. And so it became necessary for scholars to define official spellings, grammar and vocabulary for the language rather than relying on regional dialects. Which were then taught to people in schools leading to the creation of a common history and culture and forming a national identity.
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The printing press meant that books could be mass distributed in local languages rather than written by hand by monks in Latin. And so it became necessary for scholars to define official spellings, grammar and vocabulary for the language rather than relying on regional dialects. Which were then taught to people in schools leading to the creation of a common history and culture and forming a national identity.
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education
i'll counter that Romans were Italians from the start. it's probably just that saying you're Italian back then says just as much as saying you're European today.
there was always a sense that Italy was a place and people who live there are Italians. the _connotation_ of being Italian, as in possessing an Italian history and identity, only came much later as said here.
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i'll counter that Romans were Italians from the start. it's probably just that saying you're Italian back then says just as much as saying you're European today.
there was always a sense that Italy was a place and people who live there are Italians. the _connotation_ of being Italian, as in possessing an Italian history and identity, only came much later as said here.
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Alessandro
Italia is older than Rome: Romans called the people of Italy Italici, it took six centuries to conquer all Italy. The first king of Italy was an Ostrogoth called Theodoricus the Great and considers himself Italian. According to the Lombards they were the only Italians and tge Latins were just serfs.
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Italia is older than Rome: Romans called the people of Italy Italici, it took six centuries to conquer all Italy. The first king of Italy was an Ostrogoth called Theodoricus the Great and considers himself Italian. According to the Lombards they were the only Italians and tge Latins were just serfs.
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education
I know the First recorded documents written in italian (a sort of vulgar latin used by people) were from about year 1000.
As a child of eight i had to learn at school a poem by st. Francis (il cantico delle creature) written in 1224 and i understood more then 85%.
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I know the First recorded documents written in italian (a sort of vulgar latin used by people) were from about year 1000.
As a child of eight i had to learn at school a poem by st. Francis (il cantico delle creature) written in 1224 and i understood more then 85%.
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Aamer
the main takeaway is that most ethnicities and nationalists are mostly modern constructs stemming from a political context, finding an 'organic' historic or genetic definition or origin is not really correctly looking at how identities form
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the main takeaway is that most ethnicities and nationalists are mostly modern constructs stemming from a political context, finding an 'organic' historic or genetic definition or origin is not really correctly looking at how identities form
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Rab
A lesson that could be derived is that strength and unity can not occur without individuals exploring beyond their typical borders and building connections within other people's borders.
Travel.
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A lesson that could be derived is that strength and unity can not occur without individuals exploring beyond their typical borders and building connections within other people's borders.
Travel.
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JCL
Is it me or did I get more confused watching this? Wheres Johnny Harris when you need him to explain something slowly. Felt like I was in a speed date with lots of information to take in
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Is it me or did I get more confused watching this? Wheres Johnny Harris when you need him to explain something slowly. Felt like I was in a speed date with lots of information to take in
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Muscle
I understand identifying with the region you where born In me and all my ancestors that where born in Italy where all from Sicilia I never consider my self Italian just Sicilian
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I understand identifying with the region you where born In me and all my ancestors that where born in Italy where all from Sicilia I never consider my self Italian just Sicilian
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djmikio
As I understand it, it was around 476 AD when some nameless inventor in Naples converted a war chariot into the first pizza oven and the historic change of identity occured.
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As I understand it, it was around 476 AD when some nameless inventor in Naples converted a war chariot into the first pizza oven and the historic change of identity occured.
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mirola73
'Venetians not Italians'. yup, that is still the case in the UK, we're not British.
We're Scottish, English, Welsh, N. Irish first and maybe after that we're. British.
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'Venetians not Italians'. yup, that is still the case in the UK, we're not British.
We're Scottish, English, Welsh, N. Irish first and maybe after that we're. British.
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Drachir
I like to imagine all in Rome talking like the typical mob member in movies, like Ceaser being like Ayyy Imma take Gaul Fat Tony get the armies ready we're taking Gaul
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I like to imagine all in Rome talking like the typical mob member in movies, like Ceaser being like Ayyy Imma take Gaul Fat Tony get the armies ready we're taking Gaul
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Al
Apart from sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what did the Romans ever do for us?
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Apart from sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what did the Romans ever do for us?
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Captain
Some say: When Did the Romans Become Italians? Never. Romans were annihilated. Italy have Germans in the North and Greeks to the South. Hard truths.
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Some say: When Did the Romans Become Italians? Never. Romans were annihilated. Italy have Germans in the North and Greeks to the South. Hard truths.
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Nick
This was really interestingthanks! How about making a video about how Latin morphed into medieval Italian, or should I go elsewhere for that?
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This was really interestingthanks! How about making a video about how Latin morphed into medieval Italian, or should I go elsewhere for that?
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Rafael
I'm reminded of one joke that one of my professors would often tell. We've invented Italy! Now all we need to do is invent the Italians.
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I'm reminded of one joke that one of my professors would often tell. We've invented Italy! Now all we need to do is invent the Italians.
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